Tales of Maj'Eyal

Tales of Maj'Eyal

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berandro Mar 16, 2017 @ 2:16pm
Ok the new archer is OP
Mobile, crazy damage, tankier than most tanky classes, and with Concealment most enemies don't even have time to know they are being one-shot. I've been playing NM/Roguelike for a long time, and since my TW and Oozemancer wins, it never felt so easy.

What do you guys think?
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Showing 1-15 of 33 comments
errantstar (Banned) Mar 16, 2017 @ 2:25pm 
agreed, it's probably the most brainless Insane win ive had in ages. took 10 hours to win because it literally doesn't care about anything enemies can do which lets you play obscenely fast

e: lots of damage, 300% attack speed, concealment is broken AF...
Last edited by errantstar; Mar 16, 2017 @ 2:26pm
redpanda Mar 16, 2017 @ 2:37pm 
Can we please keep this. I love archers and I love having games make me feel like I'm really awesome... I don't want a challenge I just want to feel good about myself :)
redpanda Mar 16, 2017 @ 2:41pm 
P.S. This was not a sarcastic post.
berandro Mar 16, 2017 @ 2:49pm 
Originally posted by RedPanda:
Can we please keep this. I love archers and I love having games make me feel like I'm really awesome... I don't want a challenge I just want to feel good about myself :)

This is so cute :)
feliscon Mar 16, 2017 @ 3:38pm 
New releases do tend to be OP and they get toned down over time. I'm fine with the classes (and races) having a range of power levels, though.
Stormfox Mar 16, 2017 @ 3:41pm 
I gotta agree archer seems really strong now. If my current one was not stuck due to a bug (see bug forum), it might have been my first pseudo-roguelike win (i.e. the first win without any death even though I play on adventure). Part of that was because of insane out-of-depth item drops early in the game (see the corresponding thread in bug report <g>), but the class feels very powerful overall.

I do not think they need a hard nerf or anything, but they might be a tad over the top right now. I did not use concealment (too fiddly for my tastes) and simply blasted and tumbled my way through the dungeons.

I guess it is the combination of strong, ranged offense, reliable ressource (as long as combats do not drag on too long), solid defenses and high mobility works out to something that has few weaknesses. It is *fun*, though, so I would rather see more classes be fun to play like this one instead of archer getting gutted.
berandro Mar 16, 2017 @ 3:53pm 
If you're a higher you're never out of stamina, and you always know where everybody is.

You know, I'm not even sure I'm complaining. It's just that I never had this "oh so easy" feeling before with Tome, and I'm by no means a min-maxing or try-hard player. I even use auto-explore, for crying out loud...
*Yuki* Mar 16, 2017 @ 4:43pm 
how to use new archers, actually? I didnt understand them.
Should I invest into tree, that work only for marks? Should I get bow or sling + shield?
Stormfox Mar 16, 2017 @ 5:31pm 
I have not fooled around with sling+shield, so no idea how usable that is. You certainly do not need the defense of the shield, though.

I went heavy into exotic munitions and used the poison arrows exclusively as my special ammo sustain. This gives an extra aoe ability that weakens enemies and heals you during the first turns.

As for early priorities, I usually try to get aoe skills to useful sizes/ranges first on all classes that use those, and archer is no exception. Similarly, reaching a usable duration on strong debuffs like the silence arrow is very important against single, strong enemies.

Besides this, get a bunch of passives and shoot away, using your superior mobility when you start getting into trouble. Tumble is extremely good once you put a few points in it to up the range to 4 or 5 spaces.

Getting a large sight range is btw very helpful with archers, as is of course upgrading to a bow with a better range than the starting 6-7.


Beginning mid-game, a typical vault opening with 20 mobs including 3 rares behind it looked like this:
- open door
- activate shielding rune (costs no turn, but can be substituted by pre-buffing before opening the door with item shields, regen infusions or similar stuff)
- if needed to get in full range of most of them, tuble in (costs no turn)
- fire explosive shot, fragmentation shot and volley and if close enough even scatter shot in usually that exact order, costing 2-3 turns at most since archery with a good bow and some attack speed is extremely fast. If possible, try to center the volley on a mob marked by one of the first two shots for double the fun.

- by now you are usually out of arrows or nearly so because volley (especially double-volley) tends to use a bazillion arrows. But you also should be out of enemies by now, so that evens out. Any remaining rare+ mobs are dealt with by using called shots and if needed pinning shot. By the time you are done with that, your first abilities come off cooldown again. Oh, and sometimes, you can even use the headshot because you have nothing better to do or need some stamina.

If things ever look bad at the beginning of your turn and your defense abilities are mostly used up, use either a movement infusion or tumble or disengage or escape to simply hop around the next corner and win a few turns for cooldowns, arrows, stamina and life to recover. By the time they catch up, you can blast again.



Stuff I did not level:

Cat: Combat Techniques
The last one is of course theoretically powerful, but we have such a good speed and so many other powerful categories to spend points on already and do not need anything else from here

Cat: Combat Veteran
I like to put one point into stamina and one into hp regen early on and later pull them out, but that is a convenience gimmick, not something relevant. Can be safely ignored.

Stealth stuff
I dislike fiddly stuff, so I did not learn this. It is pretty good, though, if you do not mind the added few clicks.


Stuff I did find underwhelming:

Reflexes - Shoot down
You can usually dance or tank most shots anyways. It was sometimes handy when moving up a long corridor against something that shoots - but then, it usually only gets to shoot at most once because tumble+shooting should kill it quickly enough. It can be fun and is not a bad skill, though. If you use it, keep it at 2 points, that gives you 3 projectiles per use, which is more than enough.

Reflexes - Sentinel
Seems bugged? I never got it to do anything at all.

Marksmanship - Flare
1 Point is allright since sometimes a dread or something just will not become visible and is tough enough to still be alive after your 3-4 aoe spells. Pretty useless most of the time, though.


For reference, that is my char:
http://te4.org/characters/187747/tome/fc0b3262-e971-408a-bf6d-b53402a25e67

berandro Mar 16, 2017 @ 5:56pm 
Originally posted by Stormfox:


Reflexes - Shoot down
You can usually dance or tank most shots anyways. It was sometimes handy when moving up a long corridor against something that shoots - but then, it usually only gets to shoot at most once because tumble+shooting should kill it quickly enough. It can be fun and is not a bad skill, though. If you use it, keep it at 2 points, that gives you 3 projectiles per use, which is more than enough.

Reflexes - Sentinel
Seems bugged? I never got it to do anything at all.

Generally pretty good advice, but this last part is really wrong, with all due respect. Shoot Down is what allows you not to kill yourself with your own arrows, which probably used to be the highest mortality cause for pre-patch archers. The reduced projectile speed is also very good.

Sentinel just destroys dangerous casters. It is definitely not bugged.

By the way, this tree is probably one of the best for this class. This and Concealment (which honestly is not fiddly at all) make the archer what it is.
Stormfox Mar 16, 2017 @ 6:29pm 
Originally posted by btonasse:
Generally pretty good advice, but this last part is really wrong, with all due respect. Shoot Down is what allows you not to kill yourself with your own arrows, which probably used to be the highest mortality cause for pre-patch archers. The reduced projectile speed is also very good.

Sentinel just destroys dangerous casters. It is definitely not bugged.

Of course, I should have mentioned that as a one-point-wonder, Shoot down is pretty much mandatory as soon as you take any aoe skill. I was only talking about the active part of the skill, which is rarely of consequence and can be safely left at 1 or 2 points.


Sentinel simply did not work for me. At all. I tried it a few times, because on paper it sounds amazing, but it simply did nothing. It activated, the log said something about it - and thats it. Never saw any effect afterwards. Given that called shots usually is enough to scrap any caster, that was luckily not a problem.

errantstar (Banned) Mar 16, 2017 @ 6:37pm 
Sentinel is very strong because you are trading one randboss turn for one of yours and some free damage. And you get 2-3 actions before the randboss which is the big part.

e: it also means you win every ranged duel because you put their shoot on CD for 4 turns
Last edited by errantstar; Mar 16, 2017 @ 6:37pm
Stormfox Mar 16, 2017 @ 7:28pm 
Originally posted by ster:
Sentinel is very strong because you are trading one randboss turn for one of yours and some free damage. And you get 2-3 actions before the randboss which is the big part.

e: it also means you win every ranged duel because you put their shoot on CD for 4 turns

As I said before, I know what it *should* do. It did not.
feliscon Mar 16, 2017 @ 7:47pm 
Shoot down is great when it lets you 'detonate' spells like Soul Rot on the caster's tile :)
*Yuki* Mar 16, 2017 @ 8:41pm 
not that tankier, actually. Died on lvl11 inside infinite dungeon: giant ant boss with same level shoot me for 90% of my total HP
Last edited by *Yuki*; Mar 16, 2017 @ 8:41pm
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Date Posted: Mar 16, 2017 @ 2:16pm
Posts: 33