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And to elaborate on what Xethnyrrow stated, just because the Wizard and the Necromancer are super powers, this does not mean that the class themselves are extremely easy to play. They're not. That's why you need competent people playing said classes otherwise if you have incompetent people playing those classes, they're easily out performed.
They (Wizard and Necromancer) just happen to have that top tier potential that's not really available to other classes regardless of how good the player behind the class is.
The necromancer is as well weak for ranged and close range targets. The necromancer is the new "crowd control" that keeps enemies still while wizard kills them.
If I would change something in necromancer to raise its challenge:
Strong hammer ghost (head over strike):
1) To hit further
2) Cooldown time 1.5-2.x
3) Appear slower (1.5-2x)
4) Deliver little more damage (+15-20%)
That would make that move less often to usable, requiring Necromancer to get more space between her and enemy/enemies. The action could be slower to hit, but more effective. Makes the spawned ghost warriors more required to give Necromancer time.
Basic quick ghost strike:
1) Make the ghost hit just a little bit further
OR
2) Make the ghost raise animation little slower and slow down the speed.
That would make the basic attack less uselful if enemy gets close, keeping Necromancer more in move. Or it would require more tactical thinking and timing instead spamming the basic attack.
Raise of the skeleton warriors (spawns warriors)
1) Slow down the skeletons raise
That would make the skeleton warriors as tactical fellows instead just "in the last split second cover", so player would need to keep fellows more often with her already.
Ghostwalk
1) Let the Lillith get less soul power from killing (basic attack) and none from skeleton warriors killings and let the ghostwalk be the only way to Lillith collect it.
I really love Lilith the Necromancer character, but so many feels it is over powered so I would like to try to have those changes and see how it would affect its capability to survive alone, and in team.
You can't possibly be serious. The Wizard is the weakest of all? WHAT!? I don't even. I can't even. Just what!? It will be interesting to see how you come to this crazy asinine conclusion.
The Wizard and the Necromancer are top tier. Super powers, if you will. Any skilled (Emphasis on skilled) player will tell you this.
And I'm not talking about "skilled" players that play on Normal with one class and they think they know the whole game. No, just no.
LOL! You're ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ hilarious. The Necromancer can flood the whole screen with skeletons that get God Like kill chains just like that, and somehow she's weak against close ranged targets? The most common targets in the game? What? No, just no.
You can't truly be considered crowd control when you're KILLING everything on the screen and getting ginormous ridiculous kill chains that puts everyone to shame.
And the Wizard is self sufficient. He does not need for anyone else to keep enemies still for him to be able to kill them. Does it help? Sure. Although to be fair, the Necromancer is not the only thing that can provide that kind of support for the Wizard. She just does it the best because she's a super powered killing machine that floods the screen in ways that make you think that you're playing Diablo.
That's real nice and all but lets not pretend this game is balanced when the Wizard has been a top tier super power since day one.
I have to imagine that the classes in this game aren't supposed to be balanced to be equal in power. There's just no way that there would be such a power discrepancy between some of these classes. About the only thing that used to bat an eye was Thor being so ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ awful that it made him less fun to play. Which has changed drastically with the patches in this game.
He's not a super power, but he's powerful enough that he's fun to play. But again, he's no Wizard nor a Necromancer. Truth be told, it's like the developers castrated the Valkyrie to remove her from the super power argument and then introduced the new super power that is the Necromancer. Funny how things play out.
Weakest != Not powerfull.
Wizard can't take hits, it is dead faster than any other class. Then comes Necromancer.
Wizard is most powerfull character, as I already said, but weakest. Necromancer is as well very weak, but as well very powerful.
What separates Necromancer and Wizard? Wizard has 9 spells it can use, but most of those have long cooldown period. While Necromancer is like others, having just a dash, default attack, strong attack and one special capability (skeleton warriors).
While Wizard can't easily mash waves of enemies like Necromancer with damages (like fireballs, zap, shockwave etc) it has ways to turn battle for its own benefits by using orb, forcefield, frostwave. While Wizard has long traveling distance with its lighting up teleport, Necromancer has short but with very short cooling down.
While Necromancer is easier, straight forward used character, it is powerful and weak, but not the weakest or most powerful, as wizard is that. Thats why Wizard is my favorite character because it is so flexible to situations when thinking a head what to do, while I love Necromancer because its so easy to use.
LOL! You're ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ hilarious. The Necromancer can flood the whole screen with skeletons that get God Like kill chains just like that, and somehow she's weak against close ranged targets? The most common targets in the game? What? No, just no.
[/quote]
Thank you for proofing my point. When enemy gets close range, Necromanger is in trouble, skeleton warriors spawn behind the threat, hammer ghost hits behind the threat, ghost warriors hit behind the threat... all that Necromancer can do is either take steps back to get ghost warriors to hit target, or spirit walk trough the threat and if there are more enemies its easy to get middle of growd and get killed.
But as I said, as long you keep threat away from close range, Necromancer can beat almost any threat easily.
That is THE GROWD CONTROL. YOU KILL ALL FRONT OF YOU! Wizard can throw fireballs over obstacles behind threat lines, it can zap trough multiple threats deep in the growd, it can teleport trough mass or it can slow down larger group from moving. But Wizard has too little time to actually kill all, while Necromancer simply keeps everything in tight order and kills everyone.
That is the growd control. Wizard can't do it, it use to be able do that with its forcefield as it killed the enemies, but it was changed so it just throws them away. Valkyrie can keep shield up and block all enemies but it can't start easily killing them when its in defensive.
Warrior gets easily slaughtered if it gets caught from couple directions in small time difference.
Necromancer can keep just killing enemies after other, defending itself same time.
Wizard can die very easily, to me its wonder that its been called the most challenging character to master in reviews and by players, while for me it was the most funniest because the flow combos with movement and spells. Try to play Wizard like other characters and its dead. Necromancer is easier to use and has rarely threats if player just keeps controlling growd.
Warrior is still weak, improved yes, added power but still weak.
Funny indeed, or not. While necromancer is nice character, it is little overpowered. While warrior should be more about being a tank, it is less such and more about damage, where Necromancer beats Warrior.
After trials from balancing Necromancer from some of the suggestions I listed, I would try to balance game by implementing new AI for enemies how they attack, some could actually flank and wait to get to attack behind or side instead just run toward the player.
Add radically different enemies instead just the few base types. And most of the all, add a level editor for players to make multiple-route-multi-level maps where player needs to make decisions what routes to take and what stairs to take. Just like it was in the original Gauntlet.
As you might see, Necromancer needs balancing (itself, not for the game) and game needs better enemies and levels.
I hope that English is not your first language. There seems to either be a lot that around these parts or a lot of idiots around (Or in the case of some, both).
Wizard can't take hits? Uh, hello there Mr. Clueless. The Wizard has a protective bubble on a 16 second cooldown along with a myriad of ways to avoid taking damage. The protective bubble alone rises his survivability greatly, let alone all his other tools and his means for offense.
The Necromancer is far, far more squishy as her defensive move is just a carbon copy of Questor's defensive move.
Except a good Wizard knows when to use his spells and to use nearly all his spells at any given time. Cooldowns are of no consequence to the ultimate power that is the Wizard. Lets not go full ♥♥♥♥♥♥.
Congrats you're pretty much stating what I've been stating this whole time. The Wizard and the Necromancer are top tier. The Wizard is easily ranked #1 with the Necromancer a close second.
And about ease of use, it's all relative. It really is. The Wizard, to anyone who played Magicka at any decent level, is rather easy to play. The Necromancer has more risks involved when playing her at a high level, something which I'm sure you're not capable of given what you've stated thus far.
I only proved your point if you failed to read anything that I stated and then proceeded to believe that you had a valid point to begin with. Which you don't. Don't pretend like you know how to play a class when you have absolutely no clue how to play her above the mediocre level, let alone top tier high level play.
You sir have a different definition of crowd control than I do. The Wizard's Ice Orb is crowd control (AoE slow). The Necromancer simply killing everything in sight is just straight up genocide, not crowd control.
The Wizard's forcefield only ever killed skeletons and IT STILL DOES. You have no idea what the hell you're talking about.
Yes the Necromancer is a KILLING MACHINE. It's laughable to call that crowd control. It really is. Since when did crowd control include eliminating the whole crowd via atom bomb?
PS. You're already showing that you're just as inadequate with the rest of the classes.
Wizard can die very easily ONLY if you're a bad player. Which most players are. Most players are all like, "Hurr durr can't press buttons. Spell combos too hard!" As if they've never played a game with true execution difficulty (Any fighting game ever made worth being called a fighting game).
I have to assume that you're a bad player if you keep saying that the Wizard can die so easily. The most powerful class in the game with the best defensive ability in the game. I mean seriously, this is a joke.
He's quite strong to those who actually know how to play as him. You don't meet that particular criteria. However, like I said previously, he's not a super power like the Wizard nor the Necromancer. If that's your standard of judging, then every class is weak.
You call the Necromancer overpowered while completely disregarding how strong the Wizard is. This is ridiculous. And you have absolutely no idea what the hell the Warrior is about. Just none what so ever.
I would suggest that no one take your suggestions seriously as you have clearly shown that you have no clue or real insight as to how this game functions at a high level play. And you let your mediocre skill level blind you to the true super power that is the Wizard.
If the Necromancer needs balancing then so does every other class in the game so that they can be on a standard that is all equal. That's definitely not where they're all at now, with the Wizard being #1 and the Necromancer being #2. Definitive amongst skilled players.
No, it is my fourth language (and weakest).
But powerfull can be weak. It is very common way in literature to use word "weak" from powerfull. As powerfull isn't a synonym to strength.
Like synonyms with powerfull are (sorry for bad english) like; dominant, forceful, mighty, capable and almighty.
You can be most powerful (replace that with any of those synonym) and still be weakest (fragile, wobbly, feeble etc).
Like Wizard, it can do so many things in so many situations against so many different threats but when it is overwhelmed or doesn't use exactly needed ability to block the threat its down faster than others. That is very classic example in literature that you can be most powerful person in the world, but still fall for simplest reasons. Like the Achilles....
Oh.... I didn't know that you have a riot police in this game and that in real life growd control is like tapping on shoulder "please Sir/Ma'am, could you please go home?". In this game growd control is exactly that, controlling masses and how you do that? KILLING THEM.
Do you always just assume things and then do personal attacks to enfroce it?
I have played game trough at hard alone, unfair is with some classes little too difficulty to enjoy alone for short periods but with a friend it is much easier.
You seems to only just assume....
No, you again just assume. But as you now say that Warrior is more powerful than Wizard and Necromancer, you counter everything you have wrote with your assumptions.
I can only disagree. Why?
Because skill is a skill of a player, not a flaw in the character in game.
Give gamepad or keyboard+mouse to totally new player and that player can master very quickly Necromancer and hold its own in games and even assist others as well.
Then do it otherway around and give Wizard to such player and that player has difficulties to remember combos and hold its own AND/OR assist others while doing so, but not do both.
The Wizard is far more demanding character than Necromancer.
A bad player can achieve a lots with necromancer very easily, a bad player can't with Wizard. A skilled player can manage both very well, as the difference between Wizard and Necromancer (or any other character) is negligent.
If a character is bad, not even skilled player manage to use it so effectively as easier characters. Warrior is easy to play, Elf requires little more, Valkyrie does as well very easily fine...
Alright, fair enough. Just wanted to better understand who I was having a discussion with. And it does better explain certain things.
That's all real nice and all, but no matter which way you try to slice it, the Wizard is not weak. At all. The Wizard has the same base health as Questor and the Necromancer. The only difference is that he has a far, far better defensive ability than both of those classes.
On top of that, he has many, many spells that help him avoid damage. This is something that simply cannot be ignored.
The Wizard has crowd control spells. Like I stated previously. The AoE slow. There's also the freeze wave. Force field can knock a lot of enemies to the ground. On top of that, Thor can crowd control via knocking opponents down. Thyra can also do this via blocking opponents and sending them to the ground. All methods of legitimate crowd control.
Lets not be blind here.
Truth hurts sometimes. I'm just the messenger. You don't sound like a skilled player yet you're making ludicrous claims about how the Necromancer is overpowered and the Wizard is oh so squishy. I mean it's ridiculously lopsidedly biased it's hilarious. And what's heavily weighing you in that direction is your lack of skill.
Making educated guesses based on the information that is currently available to me. And for that I won't apologize. You keep saying that the Wizard is weak and squishy, and I'll keep thinking that it stems from your lack of skill. And this is because the Wizard is the strongest class in the game, far from being called squishy. Especially when compared to the Necromancer where her mistakes cost you your life.
As opposed to the Wizard who can afford a mistake every 16 seconds if need be.
Your lack of English understanding is showing. I've never stated that the Warrior is more powerful than the Wizard and the Necromancer. Again, lets not go full ♥♥♥♥♥♥.
You act as if I make baseless assumptions and then you jump the gun and claim that the Necromancer is easier to pick up and play than the Wizard. In any case, it's largely irrelevant. A Wizard as a class is better than the Necromancer, regardless of how you perceive her ease of use (Even though you can't even begin to imagine how to use her at her true potential, but that's another story).
I mean essentially you're going under the assumption that because you have a hard time playing the Wizard, everyone else does. This is largely irrelevant when speaking about skilled players and class potential.
We're splitting hairs here. I find the Wizard easier to play in most situations because he has the better abilities and he's far more forgiving.
Actually, no. Not at all. A bad player does nothing but take all your skull tokens when playing as a Necromancer. A bad player will be a bad player with both classes. I have experience with many, many bad players of both the Wizard and Necromancer variety.
I've honestly seen more skilled Wizards than I have skilled Necromancers.
Actually, no. Lets not pretend that skill somehow magically makes Thor, Questor, or the Valkyrie close to the over 9000 power levels that are the Necromancer and the Wizard. Lets just not.
There's a thing called class potential. The Wizard has the highest in my opinion with the Necromancer being a close second. Regardless of skill, you cannot exceed a classes maximum class potential. Therefore there's no way for a skilled Thor to play like a Wizard. It's just not possible from any possible stand point.
I'll be honest with you. I don't even know what the ♥♥♥♥ you're getting at and this is where the language barrier starts to get annoying.
I died a little inside reading this.
I think I died a little more when I read your newly refined and edited post.
Out of curiosity, what difficulty do you play in?