Gold pickups need to be shared.

[Bomoo]

Seriously, what year do you think this is, 1996? Competing with your co-op partners for gold pickups? Explain to me how the two melee characters don't have a massive advantage? It's even ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ worse if you use the same ass-backwards system for picking up item drops.

I get that it sounds super fun on paper, but it's going to poison the cooperative gameplay. People you meet through matchmaking are big enough ♥♥♥♥♥ already without having to worry both about the enemies and some selfish 11 year old sociopath you got paired with actively trying to screw you over.

[Gauntlet Elf]

Originally posted by Bomoo:

Seriously, what year do you think this is, 1996? Competing with your co-op partners for gold pickups? Explain to me how the two melee characters don't have a massive advantage?

They don't. Melee characters are usually closer to the gold but ranged characters can position themselves better during combat. Elf can even roll towards it.

Last but not least, the competition between players is an intended and important part of Gauntlet. You play co-operatively but still try to come out on top at the end of the level. :) You don't have to compete, of course. But it sure is a lot of fun.

*Elf

[Lyle]

The competetive aspect looks really awesome imo :) Keeps the game fresh and interesting, and gives you clear short term goals.

[Bomoo]

You're both completely wrong and have evidently never played something like Diablo 2, where it's a horrible free for all grab fest the second anything drops, completely killing the feeling of cooperation. Did the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ melee character grab everything? Okay, then you just wasted your time helping him with this boss. ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ ridiculous. You're both probably thinking "oh the competition will spice things up because competition is fun!" but let's see what happen when you go through an arduous run with some selfish pricks who grab all the gold, and you're left with crumbs and regret that you paid money for this ♥♥♥♥ game that pisses on your time investment.

To respond to the argument that it was part of the original gauntlet. So were awful pixel graphics, yet the devs chose to improve on them. The non-shared gold pickups were a horrible design choice then, and they're an even more horrible design choice now when there's no excuse for ignoring the design lessons taught by half a dozen similar dungeon crawlers.

Keep dickish pseudo-PvP griefing OUT of my cooperative experience, thank you very much; I cannot stress that emphatically enough. If I want a PvP experience I'll play a PvP game.

[Lyle]

Originally posted by Bomoo:

You're both completely wrong and have evidently never played something like Diablo 2, where it's a horrible free for all grab fest the second anything drops, completely killing the feeling of cooperation. Did the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ melee character grab everything? Okay, then you just wasted your time helping him with this boss. ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ ridiculous. You're both probably thinking "oh the competition will spice things up because competition is fun!" but let's see what happen when you go through an arduous run with some selfish pricks who grab all the gold, and you're left with crumbs and regret that you paid money for this ♥♥♥♥ game that pisses on your time investment.

To respond to the argument that it was part of the original gauntlet. So were awful pixel graphics, yet the devs chose to improve on them. The non-shared gold pickups were a horrible design choice then, and they're an even more horrible design choice now when there's no excuse for ignoring the design lessons taught by half a dozen similar dungeon crawlers.

Keep dickish pseudo-PvP griefing OUT of my cooperative experience, thank you very much; I cannot stress that emphatically enough. If I want a PvP experience I'll play a PvP game.

Oh, Ive been playing Diablo since the first, so dont worry about that. The thing is that this is, in fact, *Not* Diablo.
There is no drop loot. Let me say that again: There Is No Drop Loot. Which I find very refreshing. There is nothing breaking the flow of the game in Diablo like stopping and sorting through the loot of a pig pack. Here you dont have to worry about that, and can go nuts and revel in the mayhem instead.
There are score boards and unlockable content in between the action. The dungeon layouts are different, there are survival arenas, death chases etc.

Every character got advatages to getting the loot (gold) in their own way, and the more skilled you become, the better scores you will start to get. Or, you can focus on the killing to get you a good score if you prefer that.

You should probably try it out before dooming it to hell.

[Lyle]

Check out the PAX tournament to get the idea:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=284i8ai5KU8

[Bomoo]

Since we're not going to agree, I'd settle for a toggle. I don't necessarily want to detract from anyone else's enjoyment of the game (if they think they're going to enjoy fighting over gold drops) as long as they don't try to take a ♥♥♥♥ on mine. A simple toggle for gold sharing, as part of the lobby UI, would be perfect, and we'll all be able to play however the ♥♥♥♥ we like.

[Shazinga]

I'm just going to echo Dino here for a second.

You have to keep in mind that while the devs updated things like the graphics they were trying to stay as true to the 1985 version of Gauntlet as they could. So you have to take yourself back to 1985 a bit, standing in an arcade with your friends or GASP strangers. Shoulder to shoulder you were trying to complete each level but there was a competition going on at the same time. You want to beat the level but you want to score the most points as well.

You can't really compare this to Diablo 2 because you aren't fighting for loot you are fighting to be number one on the score boards. Now if you are your mates choose to not worry about that then that is fine and you will still have tons of fun. But your team has choices to make because its not as simple and tossing a quarter in and bam you're back up. Now if everyone dies before one person respawns then you just lost all that progress. So really there are competing drives going, the need to progress and the need to score number one. Which wins out is really up to your team. Gauntlet is about balance as much as it is about anything else. You have to balance your choices and you live and die by those choices.

So really its not about PvP or pseudo PvP if you want to call it that. The race to be number one is just another factor in this game that can decide how far you do or do not progress. It adds another aspect to the game. You are only going to progress as far as your greed allows you to.

[I have THIS!]

Originally posted by Gauntlet Elf:

Originally posted by Bomoo:

Seriously, what year do you think this is, 1996? Competing with your co-op partners for gold pickups? Explain to me how the two melee characters don't have a massive advantage?

They don't. Melee characters are usually closer to the gold but ranged characters can position themselves better during combat. Elf can even roll towards it.

Last but not least, the competition between players is an intended and important part of Gauntlet. You play co-operatively but still try to come out on top at the end of the level. :) You don't have to compete, of course. But it sure is a lot of fun.

*Elf

Thank you so much for not bending to the whims of people like this. There are already tons of games (in fact most games) out there for them, and they should understand that labors of love like this game need not be carbon copies of modern games like Diablo 3. Just enjoy the game, it's Gauntlet, not a triple-A title where the developer is trying to please everyone in order to maximize sales at the cost of gameplay.

[Bomoo]

Originally posted by Stitchlips A Go-Go:

Thank you so much for not bending to the whims of people like this. There are already tons of games (in fact most games) out there for them, and they should understand that labors of love like this game need not be carbon copies of modern games like Diablo 3. Just enjoy the game, it's Gauntlet, not a triple-A title where the developer is trying to please everyone in order to maximize sales at the cost of gameplay.

Whoosh goes the point over your head. Enjoy your mindlessly copied 1985 nostalgia wank, I guess.

The loot system in D3 is one of the few things it did absolutely right, and was, for any gamer with at least a tenth of a functioning brain, a monumental improvement. Hmm, do we force people to be ♥♥♥♥♥ to each other to get any rewards from the co-op experience, or do we actually design a system that keeps that poison from dripping into it? The ability for others to steal your share of the loot is just going to turn co-op players away from playing with others, and the game will become a wasteland of single player grinding. Amazingly obvious once you think about it, and that games that retain the primitive free-for-all loot non-system from the past is nothing short of utter incompetence in game design. Go play a pvp game if you want pvp, broseph, and leave co-op games to people who aren't sociopaths.

[Lyle]

Originally posted by Bomoo:

:rfacepalm: Whoosh goes the point over your head. Enjoy your mindlessly copied 1985 nostalgia wank, I guess.

The loot system in D3 is one of the few things it did absolutely right, and was, for any gamer with at least a tenth of a functioning brain, a monumental improvement. Hmm, do we force people to be ♥♥♥♥♥ to each other to get any rewards from the co-op experience, or do we actually design a system that keeps that poison from dripping into it? The ability for others to steal your share of the loot is just going to turn co-op players away from playing with others, and the game will become a wasteland of single player grinding. Amazingly obvious once you think about it, and that games that retain the primitive free-for-all loot non-system from the past is nothing short of utter incompetence in game design. Go play a pvp game if you want pvp, broseph, and leave co-op games to people who aren't sociopaths.

Again: There are no loot drops in Gauntlet. Get it into your head.

Which means you dont have to sort through mountains of loot like in Diablo. Its just gold treasures scattered throughout the level, which gives you points, along with kills. ("Do I go for this pack of enemies, or do I go for that treasure over there?")

Between the levels you can unlock 'loot' in the store, with the points that you aquire.

[fepriest]

Originally posted by Dino swe:

Originally posted by Bomoo:

:rfacepalm: Whoosh goes the point over your head. Enjoy your mindlessly copied 1985 nostalgia wank, I guess.

The loot system in D3 is one of the few things it did absolutely right, and was, for any gamer with at least a tenth of a functioning brain, a monumental improvement. Hmm, do we force people to be ♥♥♥♥♥ to each other to get any rewards from the co-op experience, or do we actually design a system that keeps that poison from dripping into it? The ability for others to steal your share of the loot is just going to turn co-op players away from playing with others, and the game will become a wasteland of single player grinding. Amazingly obvious once you think about it, and that games that retain the primitive free-for-all loot non-system from the past is nothing short of utter incompetence in game design. Go play a pvp game if you want pvp, broseph, and leave co-op games to people who aren't sociopaths.

Again: There are no loot drops in Gauntlet. Get it into your head.

Which means you dont have to sort through mountains of loot like in Diablo. Its just gold treasures scattered throughout the level, which gives you points, along with kills. ("Do I go for this pack of enemies, or do I go for that treasure over there?")

Between the levels you can unlock 'loot' in the store, with the points that you aquire.

You can unlock the "loot"--but don't you need to then *buy* the loot with the gold collected in-game?

Loot=currency in D3. Better loot=better gameplay experience. If gold allows you to access more options in Gauntlet, which in turns allows for a better gameplay experience, then gold is synonymous with D3's "loot" insomuch that it allows players to do things they want to do in the game--but better/more efficiently/in more interesting ways.

So let's get over the language situation here and look at the real complaint: When playing for gold, how do the Wizard and the Elf--ranged characters from our understanding--collect gold when they are more oft than not further from the wealth than the barbarian and valkyrie?

It's a good question. And the OP is right to be concerned--just because the game is a throwback to 1985 tropes doesn't mean we're going to play with 1985 people/players/gamers. People can be crappy to each other when they have the benefit of being anonymous (AKA when they're doing stuff on the internet), so how do you create the mutualism that would/could manifest in the arcade?

I intend to play this with folks whom I know in real life. I want to argue and bicker with them, but I want to know that they'll also care about my play experience enough to back off on the gold-mongering when they need to, and I can do the same.

From what I saw in the videos, the answer might just be that the hordes of monsters will be so big that it'll be difficult *not* to have access to wealth--which is satisfactory to me, if the developers decided to compensate the limited reach on the wizard/elf's part by just saturating us in money.

But there again, what if that's not the case? It could seriously dampen the gameplay experience if the Wizard and Elf are perpetually at a disadvantage because they can't reach the gold.

[Lyle]

Originally posted by fepriest:

So let's get over the language situation here and look at the real complaint: When playing for gold, how do the Wizard and the Elf--ranged characters from our understanding--collect gold when they are more oft than not further from the wealth than the barbarian and valkyrie?

It's a good question. And the OP is right to be concerned--just because the game is a throwback to 1985 tropes doesn't mean we're going to play with 1985 people/players/gamers. People can be crappy to each other when they have the benefit of being anonymous (AKA when they're doing stuff on the internet), so how do you create the mutualism that would/could manifest in the arcade?

You get points from both gold and kills. You can chose to specialize in one of them, or do a little of both. Its all up to the player.
As for how the ranged characters collect gold - mobility. If you watch some of the PAX gameplay footage, you will notice that Questor the Elf is actually one of the more prominent gold collectors.

Originally posted by fepriest:

I intend to play this with folks whom I know in real life. I want to argue and bicker with them, but I want to know that they'll also care about my play experience enough to back off on the gold-mongering when they need to, and I can do the same.

From what I saw in the videos, the answer might just be that the hordes of monsters will be so big that it'll be difficult *not* to have access to wealth--which is satisfactory to me, if the developers decided to compensate the limited reach on the wizard/elf's part by just saturating us in money.

But there again, what if that's not the case? It could seriously dampen the gameplay experience if the Wizard and Elf are perpetually at a disadvantage because they can't reach the gold.

I dont believe the unlockables will make you more powerful per se, but rather alter the gameplay a bit. The powerful relics are on cooldowns relative to their power so it all balances out in the end.
Most unlocks will be cosmetic only; Pieces of armour, Axes, Garments, Arcane Devices... For showing off ;)

The general atmosphere of the game feels lighthearted and casual. Dark, but hilarious at the same time. I actually reminds me a bit of the Discworld, if you are familiar with it.

[deezus]

I'd rather have it be a little competitive, but having an option toggle to share the gold wouldn't be a bad thing. More options are always a good thing.

[Dark]

Originally posted by Dino swe:

Originally posted by Bomoo:

:rfacepalm: Whoosh goes the point over your head. Enjoy your mindlessly copied 1985 nostalgia wank, I guess.

The loot system in D3 is one of the few things it did absolutely right, and was, for any gamer with at least a tenth of a functioning brain, a monumental improvement. Hmm, do we force people to be ♥♥♥♥♥ to each other to get any rewards from the co-op experience, or do we actually design a system that keeps that poison from dripping into it? The ability for others to steal your share of the loot is just going to turn co-op players away from playing with others, and the game will become a wasteland of single player grinding. Amazingly obvious once you think about it, and that games that retain the primitive free-for-all loot non-system from the past is nothing short of utter incompetence in game design. Go play a pvp game if you want pvp, broseph, and leave co-op games to people who aren't sociopaths.

Again: There are no loot drops in Gauntlet. Get it into your head.

Which means you dont have to sort through mountains of loot like in Diablo. Its just gold treasures scattered throughout the level, which gives you points, along with kills. ("Do I go for this pack of enemies, or do I go for that treasure over there?")

Between the levels you can unlock 'loot' in the store, with the points that you aquire.

Dino, the problem is, the gold is still needed for upgrades. if one person is hording all of the gold it makes for a very poorly designed game and takes the fun factor right out of the game. Elfs comments that it makes for a fun game Ill dispute that one. he's the developer what else is he going to say? Oh sorry guys, yes we ♥♥♥♥♥ up and know that the melee chars are going to get all of the gold. so yea good luck with that.

I've played many games over the years and many of them had this type of loot system first come first served. Its bad, and old school. which is why many developers now make games shared gold drops and individual loot drops.

Yea, there's your fun.

[Lyle]

Originally posted by Dark:

Originally posted by Dino swe:

Again: There are no loot drops in Gauntlet. Get it into your head.

Which means you dont have to sort through mountains of loot like in Diablo. Its just gold treasures scattered throughout the level, which gives you points, along with kills. ("Do I go for this pack of enemies, or do I go for that treasure over there?")

Between the levels you can unlock 'loot' in the store, with the points that you aquire.

Dino, the problem is, the gold is still needed for upgrades. if one person is hording all of the gold it makes for a very poorly designed game and takes the fun factor right out of the game. Elfs comments that it makes for a fun game Ill dispute that one. he's the developer what else is he going to say? Oh sorry guys, yes we ♥♥♥♥♥ up and know that the melee chars are going to get all of the gold. so yea good luck with that.

I've played many games over the years and many of them had this type of loot system first come first served. Its bad, and old school. which is why many developers now make games shared gold drops and individual loot drops.

Yea, there's your fun.

You still get gold, winning the level gives a little bonus as I understand it. It just adds some excitement to the gameplay and a goal to work towards.
And it means that playing skillfully will yield more points. Its natural.
The score board screen is very exciting :)

Its a friendly kind of competition.

Imagine what a boring game it would be if everyone came 1st place. Ugghh...


Related @ 12:10
http://youtu.be/ERpdyNkfUFY?t=12m11s