HoI3:TFH - Germany - Axis Poland - 9/1938

[olson185a]

As the title states, I'm playing Germany (TFH, normal difficulty) and I saved the game (Sept. 1938) when I saw I can invite Poland to join my Axis faction upon getting the rest of Czechoslovakia. Nationalist Spain is the only other Axis faction member though I could invite Italy and Japan; Hungary seems to be almost there; the USA is half-way and drifting toward Axis.

I have a few questions and hope someone can offer some guidance:

1) If Poland joins the Axis and, therefore, isn't the reason for UK-France to DoW (declaration of war) Germany, would Germany be free to DoW USSR without ever worrying about UK-France? It would seem UK should be fine with this.

2) How would an Axis Poland impact Germany supplying German troops in USSR? Can Germany trace supply through Poland as though it's German territory?

3) Should the USSR surrender, could that end the game? Or is HoI like EU in that the game is arbitrarily ended when one accomplishes what they want to accomplish?

Thanks!

[IgnacioLuchaLibreNacho]

Your questions -
1 UK & France will go to war with Germany cause the German threat is high enough to justify their DoW, will take time maybe for them, but I will happen, dont be suprised if the Netherlands or Belgium join the Allies.
2 You would be supplied via Warsaw, not Berlin, since the only way your troops to get to Russia is by Poland. Should be fine? As I have Romania occupy parts of Russia in my attacks they sometimes get good enough supplies, but That doesn't guarentee that your troops will have sufficent supplies cause Poland has to supply them now.
3 It will not end the game, the player has the choice of the Victory Conditions you may set before the start of a game, but after those 15 are achieved, you may continue conquring the world, or accept victory where you left off and you "win"

My questions
1 How much diplomacy did you pump out the get Poland and Spain in the Axis??? Spain rarely joines
2 Did you use spies to support the nazi parties in those countries to cause them to drift???
3 How did you get the US so far away from the Axis???

[lakeclouds]

On 1, I never knew this was even possible. Curious how you did it. On 3, yes it's like EU in that there's is no set ending conditions.

[olson185a]

@ Chet Manley, Thanks for your reply. It helps.

1) After posting (and not expecting replies quickly...my mistake, lol), I did about 3-4 playtesting specifically to see how the Allies respond and did find the Allies seemed to respond just as you stated (though, in my case, they DoW'd as soon as Germany DoW'd anyone....not much waiting required). So, I'll accept the truth of your statement as the reasoning (to check German ambitions) seems to explain why they would DoW in response to any Germany aggression.

2) Supply via Warsaw....I'm not optimistic that would work well for Germany. I have a feeling I'll be complaining about Poland's deployment, trading, and etc., too. This and Allied response to German ambitions may well rule against having Poland as a faction member. Thanks for the info.

3) This is another thing I discovered after posting but still wasn't sure how it works, exactly. I take it it's somewhat like CivIV, where one can either end upon meeting the chosen victory conditions or continue just to see how it ends. I hope I get a chance to see for myself someday.

*Answers to your questions*
Poland joining Axis Faction:
I either read or watched a tutorial in which it was explained that one can manipulate neutrality and faction drifting by creating "bogey men" of the target country's neighbors. I guessed that by raising the threat level of USSR, UK, and Czechoslovakia (and, maybe, Hungary for a while...I forget), one might faction-drift Poland toward Germany. I put those three (or four) countries at max. espionage and for only "Raise Threat" (at max). I also started INFLUENCE COUNTRY on Poland immediately. I've replicated this Polish drift toward the Axis faction and it seems to always work. Though, now that I know it won't stop an Allied DoW vs Germany, I don't see a reason for it anymore.

Spain joining Axis Faction:
- I wait to see which side of the Spanish Civil War is doing best and then, when one side has about 60% of the other's victory cities (and fewer than 40% loss of their own), I start INFLUENCE COUNTRY on the side most likely to win.
- Given I always start a game with UK, France, and USSR at max. espionage focusing on "Raise Threat" it seems to be enough to get Spain drifting to Axis far enough to INVITE TO FACTION.
- Of the five or so times I've tried this, it's worked 3-4 times and once I had Spain as far into the Axis corner as possible but it still wouldn't join....no clue why. In the above game (asking about inviting Poland) it was the Republican Spanish that had joined. In the game I couldn't get them to join, it was the Nationalists. Go figure. Oh, BTW, don't give German support to the Nationalists unless it looks like they're going to win.

USA pro-Axis drift:
- Again, like above, I invested into INFLUENCE COUNTRY immediately. There may have been some impact by my Standard Operating Procedure (SOP) of investing into "Raise Threat" vs UK & France.
- I always get the USA half-way between the Allied and Axis factions and have seen them 2/3 pro-Axis but the Allied DoW vs Germany (and/or German occupation of French territory) seems to be about the time that pro-Axis drift changes to a pro-Allied drift.
- I don't remember if my greatest pro-Axis drift coincided with a lot of investment into the American Bund...it may have been as I've gotten the American Bund =/> the Republican (?) Party (don't quite recall which party appears in the upper left quadrant - vs lower left- on the USA political pie chart).
- Also, I don't invite Japan into the Axis Faction ***[Edit: "while I'm still influencing the USA; prior to invading France or the pro-Allies drift of the USA begins"]***, as they're the ones who most concern the USA, and I'm starting to think I don't want Italy in it, either ***[Edit: "likewise while I'm influencing the USA"]***. I have to learn what that Italian "Stab In The Back" thing does but, whatever it is, it seems to be directed negatively toward the USA.

Investing in "Support Party":
- I've read a number of threads here on Steam and am a bit confused by the two options avaliable. I can't look at it now but the in-game button text and the tool tip text both refer to "our" party.
- One refers to raise the organization of our party and one refers to supporting the party most like ours. Since the NSDAP doesn't exist in every country, but an equivalent does in some, I'm not sure what the mechanics are.
- I think there's a typo and one of those "our"'s should be a "their"...the one regarding ruling party. I don't think I would want to support *their* ruling party (the text states "our ruling party") if I also want to support the party that's most like ours (unless the one most like ours -the NSDAP- is the ruling party). So, offhand, I think the popularity of the American Bund may have helped the USA pro-Axis drift but I'm not completely sure.
- I think the INFLUENCE COUNTRY has more to do with the pro-Axis drift than anything else. It's a bit expensive so I only use it on USA (all the time) and, sometimes, on Hungary, Brazil, or any country that I don't intend to invade (though I'm still seing how a pro-Axis drift might contribute to making that target country a "Bogey Man" in "Raise Threat" with its neighbours...I don't expect it does).
- So far, I've gotten to INVITE with Poland, Nationalist & Republican Spain, and Hungary. I've also gotten TRANSIT RIGHTS with Yugo., Romania, Bulgaria, Brazil, Argentina, all the Baltics (who seem to beg me to transit their country), and a few others. I'm assuming TRANSIT impacts supply routes but don't know for sure. I want to learn if German U-boats can be supplied in foreign ports (ie. S.America).

[olson185a]

@ lakeclouds,
As you may have read in a previous post, starting the game (1936 - Road to War) and investing in INFLUENCE COUNTRY on Poland seems to do it. I may have also invested in "support the party most like ours" also but don't know if I did or if that made a difference. I do know I was maxing out the "Raise Threat" vs USSR & UK (and possibly Czechoslovaki, too). My reasoning was to give Poland the impression that "Germany would protect them". It worked.

[IgnacioLuchaLibreNacho]

I invite Italy cause they are the best nation to take the Suez and Iraq from the British. (I land marines in gibraltar) I invite Japan cause I want them to take Singapore and other important VPs from Britain, even though I know they cuase the US to join the Alliesand go to war with Germany (wish they didnt cause they originaly werent at war with the Germans) I dont often leave Japan from the Axis cause I want to destroy the Brits and Russians quick.

Ive gotten the US to drift Pro-Axis many times by raising the support of the American-German Bund, though they may then self align to the Allies AND Axis. Speaking of foreign Nazi parties ... Every nation has a Communist, Liberal, Conservative, Fascist, and Nazi party, however when you start, some countries dont look like they have these parties, cause they have no organization, but they do exist, to get them to control the USA, France and Britain, by the end of 1940, go to Intel, tab onto the country you want, and set the priorty on the "Support OUR Party", that should increase the organization of the Nazi equivelant party in the target country. In time the popularity should rise too and there is a large chance that you'll see Nazis in your enemy cabinets. Germany has a communist party, but they got no organization so they wont see any power, get what im saying? (can be applies to ALL nations) Supporting the Nazis in contries is my way of getting them to join/drift closer

Im not sure I get your quarrel with "Our" and "Their" but you would use "Support Their Party" depeding on your future goal for them, I wouldnt want to explain what I think but others might have something.

Transit rights do not impact supply routes, once inside another nation, they to not recieve supplies from anyone

[olson185a]

@ Chet Manley,
Re: not inviting Japan and Italy, I made a clarifying edit to my post explaining that my comment was regarding the timing of those delayed invites. I realize now that at no point did I also explain I've been playing just up to a few months after the UK DoW vs Germany before restarting the 1936 scenario; therefore, I've not yet been thinking much about Asia or Allied territories there.

I did an experiment based on your comments re: nascent Nazi-like parties in countries not seeming to have one. You're right! I put "Support Our Party" @'3' in nearly every European country and after a while I was seeing the black (pro-NSDAP) pie shape emerge. I'm also surprised some of these political parties make reference to Germany. Actually, a few of these countries seem quite supportive if it as the %s I was seeing surprised me. I'm testing out COVERT points to see how "stage a coup" might work in those countries I'm not anxious to invade.

Sorry to hear about transit rights not being useful for supply. And I stated my original thought incorrectly. I was thinking about German trade routes, too, as I was hoping they could be sent through neutral countries to Germany via a hypothetical rail network. I really hate seeing those via sea trade routes pass through the English Channel while Germany is at war with the UK. The mental picture of seeing a convoy going through the Channel is laughable.

Re: "our"
Below is the button text followed by the tool tip text one sees when hovering the cursor over the button. See the "Support Ruling Party" and the tool tip text states "...improve the organization of *our* ruling party." I think it should state, "...improve the organization of *their* ruling party." My ruling party is the NSDAP, their ruling party could be any number of parties. If I'm putting expionage into "Support Our Party" (the NSDAP) I'm not sure I'd want to also be doing the same for some other party that is currently the majority in that country.

“Support Our Party” = “By identifying and influencing key opinion-makers in this country, we should be able to strengthen the organization of the political party that is closes to ours.”

“Support Ruling Party” = “Through a combination of arrests, bribes, blackmail and even some subtle per persuasion we should be able to improve the organization of our ruling party.”

Thanks for your comments. They've been very helpful.

[2MXG]

"Support Our Party" while playing Germany means you increase the Organization of any Nazi party in this country.

I had one playthrough without war and did "support our party" in Sweden, Irland and USA.
It took until 1944 but the Nazis did won the elections and the whole country did swap into a facist regime (without elections)