Border friction casus belli and time frame to do war about it

[kevinshow]

I recall that border friction was a good CB for a war and when we did war for the territory, even if the war took a long time, we could then gain that territory for the lower cost of BB points (eg, 2 points)

However, recently upon replaying some EU3, it looks like at the end of the war, the BB points are the typical 4 points. Usually this war has lasted longer than the time frame for the expiration of the temporary CB.

Is this the case that I may have remembered incorrectly or maybe that some change occurred for that CB?

As I think about things, I also realized I'm using Death and Taxes mod. Perhaps that changed it up too, but as I'm returning to EU3 after a long time, I don't remember if Border Friction CB was like that previously with this mod.

Still fun to have a reason to do war without a big stability hit but if I'm just ending up at 4 points BB for each territory, I won't focus so much on Border Friction CB as a way to gain territory.

[KtX2SkD]

It was always my understanding that the casus belli of declaration will always be in effect during negotiation time. In your case, you could try a confirmation test by editing the <event> file for it to trigger a lot more frequently, and editing the <casus belli> file to expire quite rapidly, and start a new test game as a neighbor of a suitable target (e.g. Castille targeting Portugal), and see how it works. Apply cheats as suitable to speed through unnecessary parts.

"Always" is being a key word here. Recently, I have declared war via the "Fabricate Claims" spy mission, only to find at the end that I cannot negotiate the "Personal Union" requirement as usual. I've checked everything I could've thought of at the time but I couldn't pinpoint a reason. Moving forward, I guess I'll save before every consuming maneuver (e.g. sending the spy or declaring the war), and confirm if my target negotiation goals are available as soon as possible (e.g. vassal-ability right away, or province ceding once any/target province was controlled). You might wanna consider doing the same.

[kevinshow]

thanks for the tips on the files to change. I'll give that a try , especially with the vanilla EU3 also. I definitely remember Border Friction CB being an awesome one to have trigger and take advantage of.

[KtX2SkD]

Here are my results testing 6 (six) suspect casus bellis on DW 5.2, checksum should be QMXZ but I've modified a few things to facilitate quick testing, I'll see about logging my modifications later.

Reminder about test objective: To try & find any case where you can use a casus belli to enter a war, yet be unable to use the same casus belli properly or at all during peace negotiations:

CB #1: Subjugation (mission-acquired).

CB #2: Dishonored alliance (an actual ally called to an offensive).

In both no issue was found, as expiry did not negatively affect suing for peace.

CB #3: Border friction (because their national focus farted near you).

CB #4: Defected provinces (to existing countries, I think cultural rebels, definitely not religious).

For both CBs, issues were found, and the good thing is I believe they are predictable issues.

For CB #3, the casus belli remains negotiable after expiry, but the provinces you can get from it relies on the CURRENT location of the national focus. If it moved so far away, you're screwed. If it moved but is still around your border, then you're better off or worse off, it depends.

Other than manually moving the national focus, there is event #9472 under file <NationalFocus.txt> that moves it, and I recall one game where the event was popping up like crazy, probably because I had a lot of provinces as well as me never selecting the first choice within the event.

For CB #4, the casus belli remains negotiable after expiry, but the defected provinces seem to individually have their own expiry time, which once exceeded would exit the casus belli's coverage.

To corroborate both findings, if you examine the contents of file <cb_types.txt>, you'll see what seems to be code controlling both what triggers a CB, and what criteria is used to include or exclude provinces, which based on testing above seems to compute live. Even under CB #4's code you can see two different time values, one for the CB and another for the provinces.

This actually reminds me, the "Conquest" CB from missions, once you acquire that, I recall the casus belli being stuck on the specific provinces for the duration of the mission, regardless of territorial changes. For example when Ottomans gets it against Mamluks, and people acquire Mamluks' provinces without causing the mission's cancellation, you'll get an extra casus belli against those people who acquired Mamluks provinces.

CB #5: Claimed throne (by claiming throne, imagine that).

CB #6: Obscure documents (by spy mission "Fabricate Claims").

Prior to tests, I quite confidently recall at least once being unable to negotiate forming a personal union (which is kinda the CBs' entire purpose) with the target once I had score, because the peace option didn't exist, despite nothing wrong with almost all the factors I could think of. If I'm to trust my previous post, the spy-based CB is the one, but for the tests I chose to assume both CBs are somehow defective.

For CB #5 (claim), no issues were found. I've waited until my monarch died (terminating the marriage I initiated) as well as their heir-less monarch acquiring a strong heir (de-listing them from "disputed successions" and making them immune to being claimed), all of this while they are still occupied. Due to one or both factors, the claim and casus belli ceased to exist, and despite that the peace option for a union was still available.

For CB #6 (documents), no issues were found... I've waited until the CB expired, and afterwards I've directed the game so that the target who I'm currently occupying becomes un-qualified for getting spy-attacked again. Even after both steps, I was still able to negotiate a personal union...

Moving forward for both CBs, I'll try and I'd advise keeping an eye on both parties' monarchs, heirs, government forms, prestige, legitimacy, and infamy, as well as double-checking peace options frequently mid-war and at the war's beginning. If an issue was observed, I guess the best thing would be to secure a before-issue save (preferably mid-war with the PU peace option available) and an after-issue save, and then comparing either in-game or file-to-file. I'm using the term "I'd advise" even though for all we know I'm the only one having this issue anyways >.>

Conclusion:

Six casus belli's were tested to see if they could become somehow un-negotiable at the end of war, despite being used correctly to start the war, with the primary suspect of this mis-behaviour being the war dragging on for too long.

Casus belli's tested were:

1. Subjugation.
   
   • No issues were found.
2. Dishonored alliance (the caller is an attacker).
   
   • No issues were found.
3. Border friction.
   
   • Provinces covered are based off the position of national focus at the moment of negotiation, not the position at start of war.
4. Defected provinces (joining an existing nation, probably culturals, definitely not religious).
   
   • Each defected province has its own individual timer. Once the timer elapses, the province will exit itself out of the casus belli's coverage.
5. Claimed throne.
   
   • No issues were found, but I've had trouble before so I'm still keeping an eye on this and its sibling.
6. Obscure documents.
   
   • No issues were found, but I've had trouble before so I'm still keeping an eye on this and its sibling.

aaaaaaaaaaaaaa too much time spent testing, even more time spent typing...

Wishes:

Could someone please buy me a DLC for life, giving +2 more hours daily.

Alternatively, could you please go to the wiki and take the survey advertised at the top, and write them a question as to why they don't re-grant users the ability to edit EU3 wiki pages. Forward thanks if you do >.>

- KitCat.