Don't Buy This Series

[Wraith_Magus]

And I do mean, "Don't buy it even after it drops from its laughably high starting price of $20 to something more like $5 in a year, at that."

After countless pannings by the overwhelming majority of critics and players - yes, including the REAL old-school players, this game has once again managed to release the same incomplete experience, having apparently spent all the time and money gained over the last half-dozen years on NOTHING but the graphics. Because that's what "old school" games were all about, right? Everything on the graphics, nothing on the gameplay.

This is a game that claims to be an old-school game, but lacks any of its depth. At the same time that it tries to look down upon Diablo for being real-time, the fact of the matter is that this game actually has less gameplay depth than Diablo does. Battles are always fought using the exact same tactics and skills that you simply min-max all game, no different from Diablo, but with far less variety or choice. Even in the category of enemy types, this game forces you to face what are essentially the exact same enemies with minor changes in their graphics and stats - something the original Diablo was mercilessly mocked for.

And, I should point out, I say that as someone who hates Diablo for being a dumbed-down real-time version of Roguelike games like NetHack. I compare this game to Diablo only because Diablo is the game its makers compared it to. And for as boring as Diablo's repetive gameplay is, this game manages to not only be just as monotonous, but significantly slower, due to the crawling pace of its characters. One of the advantages of a Roguelike game's turn-based nature is that its speed depends upon how quickly a player is mashing in commands - simple things like walking down an empty hallway becomes incredibly fast in a Roguelike, but with the chance to slow down when there are important choices to be made in combat. This game lacks the ability to offer players a choice, but manages to remain slow no matter what's going on - a serious downgrade in every respect from any classic (old-school) Roguelike game.

This series seems to be fueled entirely by a sense of undeserved elitism from its playerbase that anyone who doesn't enjoy the series obviously isn't hardcore enough... They're absolutely wrong, this game is a nigh-casual game romp of extremely basic mechanics, tarted up with the notion that because there isn't a manual explaining the game to people who don't understand the mechanics, that it must be "hard".

This is a game which starts and ends entirely with min-maxing. You choose a style of dealing damage, and devote your character to it entirely. All battles are the same because the developer can't be bothered to make more than one enemy AI. (The great leap forward we have this time is slightly more ranged enemies - which are exactly like melee enemies, but they stop moving directly toward you a set distance away.) Gameplay at the end of the game is exactly the same as at the start - even the spells you use as a mage rarely give you reason to reach for anything past the first couple tiers of spells. The only difference is the total number of hit points, attack bonuses, and the graphic of the enemy. Expect to camp and farm for days, because the only parts of old-school gaming it keeps are the worst parts we actually wanted to leave behind - including the pointless grinding for random treasures.

Included in the "only the worst parts of old-school games, with none of the good parts," this series is utterly barren in terms of story, immersion, or meaningful choices. The supposed novelty of choosing an "Axiom" (religion) and race wear off fast when you realize they have no play in the story, and are just another thing to min-max. People seem to want to claim that because there's Sci-Fi in the Fantasy, that it's somehow "new", but even without remembering what Wizardry was like, the story is so utterly anemic as to be functionally non-existent (we are talking about only a couple pages of text for the plot in a plot that mostly consists of fetch quests,) - as is whatever character you create's relation to the story. Supposedly, this the same character for all three games, but you couldn't be a female character in the first game, (for no adequately explained reason,) but can in the sequels, so...

Oh, and did I mention rubber banding? Because the treasures are rubber-banded to level, but the monsters are not, meaning that even low-level enemies drop adamantine junk late-game, while winning fights against high-level enemies at a low level nets you the same junk you get from bashing early random-treasure-dropping enemies. (And defeating enemies of any level is not difficult because of the dozens of obvious exploits any genuine old-school player would know to test.) This series has been obviously lacking in balance from the start, and has never fixed any of its major flaws, no matter how heavily they were reported upon.

If you want to play an old-school game, play the real old-school games. Leave this game to the whining elitists who want to prove they are somehow more "hardcore" than you because they can "master" a game system too basic to have competed with the likes of the real old-school games it purports to emulate. Play the actual old-school games - you can get Ultima IV for free, the first two Fallouts, and the trio of Wizardry 6, 7, and 8 here on Steam for much less price than this. If you really want a classic updated to modern times, look at Xenonauts, Avernum, or Avadon. Or play Elona - it's free, and it's a top-down Roguelike RPG that offers significantly more depth than this series. This game (and the hugely abusive community it fosters) is not worth your time, money, or the grief you will recieve.

[MR.hyde]

i need a tl;dr

[Neminiscule]

What MR.hyde said

[bodun]

well i cant fully agree, topicstarter is right about faults, but game gives that good old munchkin filling for min-maxing, making jack of all trades, trying to hold on without investing points until you`ll find teacher\books etc.
and about "hardcore" - game`s balancing on what i`ld call "hard only if you`re mashing" level, as with understanding of few tricks (for example using kegs in the beginning, oil bottles etc) it`s solid normal level.

[Wraith_Magus]

Originally posted by MR.hyde:

i need a tl;dr

Setting aside how indicitive this might be as to the amount and depth of narrative the customer of this game expects...

TL;DR: This game is not nearly as hard or deep as it claims to be. Every monster follows DOOM(1)-style AI - they just run staight at you until attack range, then spam attacks until dead. All you do is min-max damage skills and spam attacks to grind. There are plenty of better "new-old-school" games out there, play Avernum instead.

[Wraith_Magus]

Originally posted by Never:

Oh look, it's wraith_magus! Hey welcome back man, glad to see you're complaining about book III now instead of I or II like before. For those of you who are unfamiliar with him, let me redirect you to http://steamcommunity.com/app/25600/discussions/0/810921273870554738/

I shall point you to the fact that my criticisms were not only valid then, but also never fixed.

Further, after over a year of people trying to "discredit" me, the only method people seem to keep using is that I somehow have an "agenda" against the series.

Consider the "logic" behind that sort of statement: You can't find a way to directly address the claims, so you have to attack the messenger. You do so by saying that, essentially, "the only reason am giving reasons why people wouldn't like the game is because don't like the game." Clearly, no more damning accusation has ever been leveled in an argument. If we were to accept the logic of the people arguing against me, your own logic is flawed by having your own "agenda" of liking this game.

These types of horde personal attacks upon anyone who dares voice any opinion other than zombie-like devotion to the series is exactly one of the reasons people should stay away from the series - while it may not be DayZ, few communities are quite as spiteful as Basilisk Games' community.

[Bijat]

1, i completed both 1th and second game without grinding atall, sure i did abit mass camping in end of 2 but it was not needed at all only for fun =)

2, if you dont go for the late game spells like a mage/priest your a morron becuse the first/second tier spells wont kill stuff fast late game

3, i like the story sure its not overly complex or anything but works for me and is the main reason i play thease games (to remember story is totaly based on your OPINION)

4, the combat is pritty simpel and the way you build your char is aswell but i like it becuse it meens u dont have to reroll 10 times or more that u had to in some older games when u wasent totaly informed when u did your char (agen opinions...)

5, i alrdy completed all those games u listed and most games from the old times and play roguelikes pritty often...aswell thease games maby takes max 1 month for a casual player to complete(the old games) and if u think about they was released quite some time ago its not to uncommon that most player ether dont wanna play them or alrdy played them


to sum it up yea this game is prob nothing for u but i enjoyed it and played the second one 2 times and first one 1 time and i dont hang around the forums and dont think im elite becuse i like thease games, diffrent ppl like difrent games simply =D but i woud agree u gotta test the demo first to see if u woud like it, its pritty nich title

also those older games had alot of flaws aswell and was not perfect like u trying to say they was and i think grafic makes a difrence..sure its not the main part of a game...

PS dont look at play times on this accout i buyed all games from basilisks webpage so those numbers are not true =>

PPS sorry for bad spelling got dyslexia & eng is my second lang ^^

[Ricochet]

Originally posted by wraith_magus:

Originally posted by Never:

Oh look, it's wraith_magus! Hey welcome back man, glad to see you're complaining about book III now instead of I or II like before. For those of you who are unfamiliar with him, let me redirect you to http://steamcommunity.com/app/25600/discussions/0/810921273870554738/

I shall point you to the fact that my criticisms were not only valid then, but also never fixed.

Further, after over a year of people trying to "discredit" me, the only method people seem to keep using is that I somehow have an "agenda" against the series.

Consider the "logic" behind that sort of statement: You can't find a way to directly address the claims, so you have to attack the messenger. You do so by saying that, essentially, "the only reason am giving reasons why people wouldn't like the game is because don't like the game." Clearly, no more damning accusation has ever been leveled in an argument. If we were to accept the logic of the people arguing against me, your own logic is flawed by having your own "agenda" of liking this game.

These types of horde personal attacks upon anyone who dares voice any opinion other than zombie-like devotion to the series is exactly one of the reasons people should stay away from the series - while it may not be DayZ, few communities are quite as spiteful as Basilisk Games' community. [/quote]



A quote of yours wraith fronm the other thread Wraith Magus .,., it says alot...

"Given my experience with the developer and its quite bitter community, the "thorough beta-testing" is taking place with exactly the sort of people who aren't capable of figuring out the game, which is exactly why it results in this utter mess where all the "best" builds are completely obvious. Anyone willing to actually test power builds gets kicked out of the community even if they don't leave on their own because this gameplay is so shallow."

So yes someone is bitter , somone is butthurt and someone has an agenda .. were you kicked out of the testing??? hmm
And you are more proof that " An empty can rattles the loudest" Rattle on brother..

But there are alot of people who like this game and enjoy and they arent listening... rattle on ....

[Scully]

You seem to feel so strongly about this game series I just had to buy it. Thanks

[n1x0r]

Idk... thought the game was pretty fun tbh... it was a little bothersome when you found out that everything you spent time on was the journey "there" rather then what happend "there", but the game was still pretty good... regardless of how the story played out.

[beeQWOP]

It's nice to see someone who almost assuredly hasn't played much, if any, of the third game telling others not to buy it. Of course, you're just raging here over because someone hurt your feelings on the developer's website. If anything, you're pretty persistent when it comes to grudges. Sadly that's not much of a virtue.

Given that the graphical style has not changed much, and there are not that many new art assets so far, somehow I doubt that's the biggest expenditure in the developer's budget.

[Alex Core Plus R]

I will consider your comments once you do one favour for me:

Make your steam profile public so I can see that you do indeed own these games, and that you've played them a reasonable amount of time.

[Dav]

Originally posted by wraith_magus:

Don't Buy This Series."

disagree.

[MR.hyde]

Originally posted by Dav:

Originally posted by wraith_magus:

And I do mean, "Don't buy it even after it drops from its laughably high starting price of $20 to something more like $5 in a year, at that."

disagree.

yeah i liked the demo, i will buy it when it comes in a sale. it reminds me of baldurs gate without the burping tavern guests (which is a plus)

[Alex Core Plus R]

Originally posted by MR.hyde:

Originally posted by Dav:

disagree.

yeah i liked the demo, i will buy it when it comes in a sale. it reminds me of baldurs gate without the burping tavern guests (which is a plus)

HA! I know exactly what you mean.

[Dav]

Originally posted by MR.hyde:

Originally posted by Dav:

disagree.

yeah i liked the demo, i will buy it when it comes in a sale. it reminds me of baldurs gate without the burping tavern guests (which is a plus)

yeah, i disagree with the whole topic anyway, just didnt want recopy his whole book of text. games worth it at full price. certainly worth it on a deal. maybe its not for everyone, taste varies.