A star on B4 is too obscure and the pyramid breaks puzzles (SPOILERS)

[Zaxx]

As a long time adventure game fan I really hate pixel hunting or should I say I ♥♥♥♥ing hate all the god awful pixel hunting parts in adventure games. This game takes that to a whole new level when it comes to getting the stars.

I just finished the second world and so far I've collected 15 stars on my own but in B4 I had absolutely no idea where the second star could by. There is a message on the Sphinx by Uriel4 and from a previous star puzzle and the fact that he is a messenger it seemed obvious that if you find a message from him there is a high chance that's a hint. So the star has to be connected to the Sphinx. It says to look at the highest peak: that's the top of the pyramid. I zoom in: nothing there. I go to one of the puzzle rooms just to try the top with a connector: no message that says that a connection could be made. I searched around a lot, for a while I even thought that the "no entry" secret could be connected to the puzzle but doesn't seemed like that after giving it some thought.

After a bit more searching I just gave up but I was curious so I looked it up on Youtube: it was indeed the top of the pyramid and a connection can be made between that part and some random part of the Sphinx. I would have never found that thing and you know why? Because there was absolutely no visual indication for a connection there and when I tried the pyramid with a connector before it looks like I missed that ♥♥♥♥ing pixel where it connects. Finding the other random, invisible "connector" part of the Sphinx is impossible too because I would have never scanned every part of that ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ statue. Why? Because it would have been hopelessly stupid.

I really don't understand what's the fun in this? Why don't just put a big ♥♥♥ power / light source on the Sphinx so people would actually have an idea that "yes, the message is not lying, it is the ♥♥♥♥ing top of the pyramid and you need to get a connector from one of the puzzle rooms"? Another idea: why not make the whole triangle shaped remains of the original "outside" of the Cheops Pyramid act as a connector, hell even a cool blue lighting effect could be put there.

My other complaint is that some of the regular secrets are just overdoing the "secrety stuff". At first I had no idea where the star was on B2 but then I spotted the binoculars on top of one of the puzzle rooms. After a ridiculous amount of pixel hunting (the game is very detailed btw. so spotting small stuff is really ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ hard) I found the key for it. "Now I'm getting closer to finding the star" I thought. Then I somehow spotted the connector on the Moon. I connect the light there, make that hard and frustrating jump to the binoculars again (it's a first person game, you're not supposed to do jumping puzzles here), look into them and it's just a ♥♥♥♥ing Portal easter egg. Man, I was never disappointed after finding a cool secret like this before and then when I actually realized where the star was all I could do was to curse. :D

Edit: Since then I've also found out that the pyramid breaks the "Wrap Around the Corner" and the star puzzles:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0oUQpQC2hc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mdmki6pEoQQ

[AFFM]

Stars are pretty optional, so many of them are pretty difficult / tricky. They tend to reward exploration and attention to details.

My only real questions is... were you using a controller for the Sphinx/Pyramid one? I never had an issue with it, but perhaps the controller you're using isn't that great are precise movements, or you messed with the sensitivity (or even with a mouse, for that matter?)

[Zaxx]

Originally posted by A Fancy Fridge Magnet:

Stars are pretty optional, so many of them are pretty difficult / tricky. They tend to reward exploration and attention to details.

My only real questions is... were you using a controller for the Sphinx/Pyramid one? I never had an issue with it, but perhaps the controller you're using isn't that great are precise movements, or you messed with the sensitivity (or even with a mouse, for that matter?)

I use a mouse and I get the that the stars are supposed be hard. My problem with this one is that I basically had the correct thinking to solve it but I still couldn't solve it because you have to connect 2 invisible parts which is just bonkers. A puzzle game should be about thinking, not about mindless pixel hunting.

So I'm not against the difficulty of the game, if I were I think I'd open a thread about how ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ frustrating some of the sigil puzzles are at the messenger parts because I just suck at them but nope, I know that I'm just bad at them, I basically solve them by randomly throwing stuff next to each other.

[Vivia (shi/hir) ☣]

I agree wholeheartedly regarding the Sphinx. It's so obscure that beyond "there's a star somewhere on this level" I would have absolutely never figured it out. If nothing else it just needs a better cue... something that can lead the player to it more naturally than the most likely mad scribblings of some malfunctioning agent named Osiris4...

Perhaps the biggest fault therein is that very last statement of mine: I have observed exactly three NPC messages that are in any manner relevant to the gameplay at all... and one only very loosely. The message from Osiris4, one relating to a previous star puzzle ( If you don't know the one I'm talking to, just keep hunting stars; it's only a matter of time before you find out), and one in the end-game that was little more than a useless taunt that did nothing but give flavor and lore-confirmation to something the player experiences later... in a word: redundant.

So, bottom line, since I've only seen two NPC messages that aren't absolutely useless to the gameplay out of dozens scattered throughout the game, the player is being thoroughly trained from beginning to end to just take them with a grain of salt and give them not a second thought, much less the mental engagement it takes to solve a riddle this obscure.

As for sigils, it was that one with nothing but one-of-each mirroring pieces... C* I believe? That one drove me insane. The rest are fine by me.

[protëin]

Originally posted by A Fancy Fridge Magnet:

Stars are pretty optional

Well, except for the part where at least one of the endings requires you to collect (almost) all of them.

[checkers_of_shalmone]

Originally posted by Protein:

Originally posted by A Fancy Fridge Magnet:

Stars are pretty optional

Well, except for the part where at least one of the endings requires you to collect (almost) all of them.

What do you mean by "almost"? That ending requires all the stars unless you play the other game...

As for the stars, they are definitely an area where the game's inability to differentiate "tedious" from "difficult" really shines. :|

[AFFM]

The last ending is pretty much the "you 100%'d the game" ending. The stars ARE totally optional, and that ending is only for the dedicated players. We all know what the real ending is, and that's enough for the majority of the people.

A TON of games have extra stuff to do for 100%, and they are way more tedious and time-consuming. Considering people solve the stars on their own and pick up on the hints, I really don't think they're out of line or impossible. Having said that, everyone is entitled to their opinions, so I'm not really gonna argue.

[Moonbane]

I used a faq to find most of the stars, simply too well hidden. But I wanted to see the grey puzzles and the final storybits. Some of the stars was just brutal, using hidden connectors outside the puzzles, or having to drag some out of a puzzle to activate them.

[Vivia (shi/hir) ☣]

Most of the stars I managed to get pretty much on my own through persistence. The few I couldn't find at all or, in the case of the obelisk just couldn't see through, I took some hints. For the bloody Sphinx, though... that one I need an answer for.

If there had just been maybe a gem or something. Something to give a little substance to Osiris' supposedly mad scribblings.

[Blattdorf]

Technically, there is an alternate solution to this secret star.

[protëin]

Originally posted by main_gi:

That ending requires all the stars unless you play the other game...

Yes, that's why I said "almost", you can easily collect 3 of them in the other game.

[Vivia (shi/hir) ☣]

Originally posted by Strifer:

Technically, there is an alternate solution to this secret star.

That doesn't go very far toward justifying its manner of implimentation.

[jason.washdc]

I agree finding those connectors for that star was too obscure. I too had to Youtube it to figure out that I was so close but missing them.

But I just finished what I certainly hope is the most tedious part of this game and that is Egyptian Arcade. That puzzle had me rage quit several times to only try it again later. The twitch timing required totally does not fit the rest of the game. That was not a puzzle, it was a reflex reaction test.

Most of this game is amazing but parts like that frustrate me beyond belief.

[checkers_of_shalmone]

Originally posted by A Fancy Fridge Magnet:

The last ending is pretty much the "you 100%'d the game" ending. The stars ARE totally optional, and that ending is only for the dedicated players. We all know what the real ending is, and that's enough for the majority of the people.

I went over this, but I got all the 30 stars thinking they were required for the Tower ending.

By the way, the hinting guy is Uriel4.

[Zaxx]

Originally posted by jason.washdc:

I agree finding those connectors for that star was too obscure. I too had to Youtube it to figure out that I was so close but missing them.

But I just finished what I certainly hope is the most tedious part of this game and that is Egyptian Arcade. That puzzle had me rage quit several times to only try it again later. The twitch timing required totally does not fit the rest of the game. That was not a puzzle, it was a reflex reaction test.

Most of this game is amazing but parts like that frustrate me beyond belief.

Egyptian Arcade? Really? I don't want to brag about my "skillz" or anything like that but you can do a lot with 2 jammers so for me that was one of the easier ones with a lot mines. One gray sigil puzzle like that in world A kicked my ass to hell and back though. :D

[Vivia (shi/hir) ☣]

Originally posted by main_gi:

Originally posted by A Fancy Fridge Magnet:

The last ending is pretty much the "you 100%'d the game" ending. The stars ARE totally optional, and that ending is only for the dedicated players. We all know what the real ending is, and that's enough for the majority of the people.

I went over this, but I got all the 30 stars thinking they were required for the Tower ending.

By the way, the hinting guy is Uriel4.

...Uriel... Osiris... ... ...w-who cares, anyway?!

Anyway, I had the same assumption. I was intrigued when I hit the button... then I got off the elevator, took a few steps, and promptly WTF'd my way back into the elevator.