The Talos Principle

The Talos Principle

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swfc_dan Feb 10, 2019 @ 12:45pm
Road to Gehenna
Finally got this in sale after finishing TP and enjoying it. I'm enjoying the difficulty spike but couldn't they have added at least one more totally new feature to the puzzles? Is there really no new ideas at all they could add? I like the game it is definately inferior to Portal in terms of variety possibilities as there are far fewer things to play with.
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Showing 1-14 of 14 comments
swingline Feb 10, 2019 @ 9:31pm 
I picked the DLC just now also. Does seem harder. The first puzzle I tried was a mind twist and took me a long time to figure out - (Name was something like "through the window" or similar) - so I'm wondering if I'll be able to finish them if they continue to get harder. Luckily the second one went faster, but I'm guessing I'm going to run into some that are too hard for me. I've only glanced at the other two on the first level but they seem involved also - as I'm not sure what I'm even trying to do on them yet. :lunar2019shockedpig:

Unsure about new features, but it's certainly looking to be more complex.

Shrill Feb 23, 2019 @ 5:38am 
I just completed this DLC after picking it up in the sale, I really struggled with the difficulty spike, although it wasn't totally impossible - just took me a lot longer to figure out!

I don't think they could add any more features, but what they did do to increase the difficulty with the normal features really bent the rules of what we learnt in the main game. Ex; having to cross lasers when we got told never to cross them. Especially in those silver sigil levels after getting all the stars.
Crash_7 Feb 26, 2019 @ 3:23pm 
Agreed about the difficulty spike. Understandable, though. If you've completed the game, you don't want something thats easier for dlc. Personally, I was able to complete the basic dlc without hints. Getting all the stars and doing the "free Admin" levels, though, I had to consult YouTube on some of those. And on a couple of those, I basically just copied what was done in the video and still had no idea how it worked.
joridiculous Feb 27, 2019 @ 9:03am 
the stars are really a pita to get. fun though.:lunar2019piginablanket:
also finding all the 'easter eggs' and hidden stuff. Many days where lost i Gehenna :acbutterfly:
Latharion Feb 27, 2019 @ 12:17pm 
Originally posted by swfc_dan:
Finally got this in sale after finishing TP and enjoying it. I'm enjoying the difficulty spike but couldn't they have added at least one more totally new feature to the puzzles? Is there really no new ideas at all they could add? I like the game it is definately inferior to Portal in terms of variety possibilities as there are far fewer things to play with.


I am confused as to the statement that Talos Principle is inferior to Portal because of "fewer things to play with"... Portal has the Portal gun, and the companion cube (and possibly the radio). Talos Principle has jammers, connectors, boxes, fans and platforms (as well as a few "special" items). Also, Portal took place in closed in spaces, whereas Talos Principle takes place in wide open areas. Neither is superior or inferior, just different. Portal proved that much can be done with very little. Talos Principle proved that tools can be more useful than their obvious purpose.

I found the DLC to be quite a bit more challenging than the main game. Heck, the area 1 puzzles were quite challenging. The stars were very cleverly hidden, and the easter eggs tended to be worth the effort.
swfc_dan Feb 27, 2019 @ 12:45pm 
Originally posted by Latharion:
Originally posted by swfc_dan:
Finally got this in sale after finishing TP and enjoying it. I'm enjoying the difficulty spike but couldn't they have added at least one more totally new feature to the puzzles? Is there really no new ideas at all they could add? I like the game it is definately inferior to Portal in terms of variety possibilities as there are far fewer things to play with.


I am confused as to the statement that Talos Principle is inferior to Portal because of "fewer things to play with"... Portal has the Portal gun, and the companion cube (and possibly the radio). Talos Principle has jammers, connectors, boxes, fans and platforms (as well as a few "special" items). Also, Portal took place in closed in spaces, whereas Talos Principle takes place in wide open areas. Neither is superior or inferior, just different. Portal proved that much can be done with very little. Talos Principle proved that tools can be more useful than their obvious purpose.

I found the DLC to be quite a bit more challenging than the main game. Heck, the area 1 puzzles were quite challenging. The stars were very cleverly hidden, and the easter eggs tended to be worth the effort.
Come on...im not just talking about the physical items you use. What about the forcefields in Portal, what about the laserfields, the forward/reverse beams (me and my friend call alien abductors), the laser beams you reflect with cubes, the gels which affect speed and bounce, the momentum flings, the light bridges etc..

I like Talos Principle. But there is WAY more variation and possibilities in Portal, when playing others custom levels Im still finding new ideas (such as splashing blue gel onto a light bridge and launching into it at the exact right angle to bounce off and reach another platform).

And I just felt they could easily have introduced something new for RtG DLC here. The levels seem cleverer and tougher but they shouldve added a new element.
swingline Mar 14, 2019 @ 12:58am 
I was progressing pretty well on the DLC, but think I'm going to have to tap out at the "Crater" puzzle. Enjoyed it up to this point - just running out of juice and am finding myself not wanting to go back to that puzzle after several tries at it.. I wish better success on freeing the other bots to any who follow after me. ;-)
WAND3R3R_R33C3 Mar 19, 2019 @ 2:49pm 
Originally posted by Latharion:
I am confused as to the statement that Talos Principle is inferior to Portal because of "fewer things to play with"... Portal has the Portal gun, and the companion cube (and possibly the radio)...
I believe the OP was referring to Portal 2. If you never played it, then I strongly suggest you do. It is the opposite of the first game, less focus on time trials, more focus on puzzles.

Also, Portal 2 has more content, and almost all of that content can be used independently or together. The variety makes all the puzzles unique. Furthermore, many map creators have found creative ways to use the content to make new things.

Talos, on the other hand, has very little content, and some things can not be used independently, like the platform. Almost all puzzles involve lasers. This game could have been called The Laser Principle. Everything else exist to help the player manipulate the lasers. Yes, some things could be used without lasers, but that rarely happens. Furthermore, I don't see much room for creativity.

I was also a little underwhelmed by the DLC. It was good for the money, but like some other people, I was expecting at least one new thing. I think the devs were more focused on their forum simulator than the actual puzzles.
Latharion Mar 19, 2019 @ 9:10pm 
I thoroughly enjoyed Portal and Portal 2. When played alongside Half-life 2, the humor of the Portal story was even better!

If you played Talos Principle strictly for the puzzles, then you missed over half of the game. The plot and compelling story in Talos Principle are excellent. Portal is the king of puzzle style games, bar none, but Talos Principle broke some new ground by including things like a spacious environment, many creative ways to solve problems, and lots of tools to get the job done.

It seems to me that you, and the OP both would rather play Portal again. It's worth playing again for sure, and you will probably gain far more enjoyment out of it. Others will be very pleased to continue playing Talos Principle. Both are great games, and both stand on their own merit.

One final comment in response to the DLC. Portal 1 did not include any. The story stood as is. Creating compelling DLC for a puzzle game is not easy, and the devs for Talos Principle managed to create Road to Gehenna using the same set of tools, but in far more devious ways. If you haven't completed the optional silver sigil area, they are some of the most difficult puzzles in the entire game.
Last edited by Latharion; Mar 19, 2019 @ 9:11pm
joridiculous Mar 19, 2019 @ 9:54pm 
i think this game and the dlc is way better then Portal 1 and 2. Even thought both those games was brilliant, this one got more creativity in the puzzles and how you can solve all of them in several different ways.
And i really like how the game is designed so you can break the rules, and it will still be 'canon' by doing so. (If you dont know what i mean, you didnt pay any attention to the story at all)

This DLC is brilliant. Not only did they find new way to use the same mechanics as in the main game, not only making it quite a lot harder, but they also managed to add to the story without contradicting the main game.

If you want more clever puzzle ideas, do check out some of the mods. People are going nuts with using the same mechanics in completely new ways.
WAND3R3R_R33C3 Mar 20, 2019 @ 3:45am 
I like Talos. It's the first open world puzzle game I played, and the story was good too. I also liked how the game keeps the player questioning things, and then gives all the answers in the end.

I'm just stating Portal 2 had more puzzle variety.

Also, I really don't think the DLC added to the story. Why can't Elohim get those AIs himself? He's the one who put them there. He's in control of the simulation.
swfc_dan Mar 20, 2019 @ 1:56pm 
Originally posted by WAND3R3R_R33C3:
Originally posted by Latharion:
I am confused as to the statement that Talos Principle is inferior to Portal because of "fewer things to play with"... Portal has the Portal gun, and the companion cube (and possibly the radio)...
I believe the OP was referring to Portal 2. If you never played it, then I strongly suggest you do. It is the opposite of the first game, less focus on time trials, more focus on puzzles.

Also, Portal 2 has more content, and almost all of that content can be used independently or together. The variety makes all the puzzles unique. Furthermore, many map creators have found creative ways to use the content to make new things.

Talos, on the other hand, has very little content, and some things can not be used independently, like the platform. Almost all puzzles involve lasers. This game could have been called The Laser Principle. Everything else exist to help the player manipulate the lasers. Yes, some things could be used without lasers, but that rarely happens. Furthermore, I don't see much room for creativity.

I was also a little underwhelmed by the DLC. It was good for the money, but like some other people, I was expecting at least one new thing. I think the devs were more focused on their forum simulator than the actual puzzles.
Glad someone agrees with me!
Agenta Mar 26, 2019 @ 6:16pm 
Originally posted by WAND3R3R_R33C3:
Originally posted by Latharion:
I am confused as to the statement that Talos Principle is inferior to Portal because of "fewer things to play with"... Portal has the Portal gun, and the companion cube (and possibly the radio)...
I believe the OP was referring to Portal 2. If you never played it, then I strongly suggest you do. It is the opposite of the first game, less focus on time trials, more focus on puzzles.

Also, Portal 2 has more content, and almost all of that content can be used independently or together. The variety makes all the puzzles unique. Furthermore, many map creators have found creative ways to use the content to make new things.

Talos, on the other hand, has very little content, and some things can not be used independently, like the platform. Almost all puzzles involve lasers. This game could have been called The Laser Principle. Everything else exist to help the player manipulate the lasers. Yes, some things could be used without lasers, but that rarely happens. Furthermore, I don't see much room for creativity.

I was also a little underwhelmed by the DLC. It was good for the money, but like some other people, I was expecting at least one new thing. I think the devs were more focused on their forum simulator than the actual puzzles.
Fair Warning: This will be a long post. I disagree with your post greatly and want to explain why.

I will agree that Portal 2 has more potential creativity with the mechanics due to how many there are in the game (and what the Portal gun allows), however that does NOT mean Talos is a worse puzzle game. At all.

First of all, Portal 2 is far far easier, regardless of how many mechanics there are. While the community has done wonders with difficulty (and the advanced chambers are generally quite interesting) the base game itself (and the co-op campaign, art therapy included) are extremely simple. I played Portal 1 and Portal 2 when I was quite young, they are some of my earlier gaming memories, Portal 1 more-so then the sequel, and yet I was stumped 4 times in all of Portal 1 and Portal 2, co-op not included. The 4 puzzles were Advanced 16 (hello cages), 18, Advanced 18, and that one test with 3 lasers into 3 different receivers with only 2 cubes and your portals. Talos on the other hand creates far more complicated and far more difficult puzzles during it's later phases (World C, Gehenna, and the Tower mostly). This is point is mostly subjective so take it with a grain of salt, if you must.

Second, although Talos has less actual mechanics (mostly due to the lack of a Portal gun), it does far far more with the mechanics it has. Due to being much longer Talos is able to teach and build upon mechanics as the game progresses. Portal 2, due to constantly wanting to introduce new mechanics, doesn't do any of that, with the only mechanic really built on by the end being ways you can move your character (gel, flinging, funnels, etc...). Compare that to how the "Connector/Laser Mazes" in Talos' early-game lead into similar puzzles in the DLC-star-level (notably Small Space, Big Solution and Ray Mania).

Third, the Stars (and the multi-puzzle puzzle solutions). This mechanic alone justifies Talos' existence as a puzzle game. These should be fairly self-explanatory. They add quite a lot to Talos' replayability, complexity, and world-design. Portal 1 and 2 do nothing like it due to the test-chambers being the only real puzzles (and yes, I personally don't think the outsider-of-chamber sections in either Portal count as actual puzzles). If you want to see a custom-campaign that plays with this mechanic a lot, try "Only Puzzles 2", it's on the steam workshop.

And now for the rest of your post:

"Everything is used to manipulate lasers": Portal is also focused on one mechanic, manipulating the positions of Objects/the-player (Solid or Fluid or Light, animate or inanimate). Literally every puzzle involves changing the position of objects in specific ways to unlock the exits. Many puzzle games can be boiled down to one phrase to describe the game's mechanics.

"Lasers Principle" First, you don't seem to like/care-about stories in puzzle games, do you? Second, there are quite a few puzzles that don't involve lasers if you were paying attention. Floor 5 of the Tower is one of the last puzzles in the game and has none. Many puzzles in Talos do use them, but that is mostly due to one thing I will say next:

"Interconnected mechanics vs Independant Mechanics": I notice how you single out platforms here, when in reality they are the ONLY mechanic in Talos that requires another mechanic. Everything else, Jammers, Connectors, Fans, Boxes, and Recorders can all be used without other mechanics. Nice job cherry-picking. Second, Talos uses lasers a lot because of what seems to be your main issue, many mechanics mix with lasers quite well. Lasers are also the far-far simpler way to handle the stars/multi-puzzle puzzles. The amount of Laser puzzles is also an issue I have with the game though (one of the few actually).

"I don't see much room for creativity": You obviously haven't done much looking. Here, let me point you in the right direction: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=502638511

"New Mechanic in DLC PLS?": Road to Gehenna is focused on expanding around the base game's mechanics, not introducing new ones. Basically all puzzle-game DLC does this. Although hmmmm... I wonder if there is something the DLC teaches you that the base game never requires..... hmmmm. Oh yeah, the damn Star-World.

"Forum simulator": Yeah I think this confirms you don't care about story in puzzle games at all.
joridiculous Mar 26, 2019 @ 7:42pm 
Excelent Agenta1999.
I will only add one thing to your post; Check out the Speedrunners!
Mindblowing and amazing stuff they do with the game (and DLC), and the mechanics. (There are Links in the "How to break every puzzle in Talos" video series.) :theta::lunar2019piginablanket:
Last edited by joridiculous; Mar 26, 2019 @ 7:42pm
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Date Posted: Feb 10, 2019 @ 12:45pm
Posts: 14