Shaman Dance a Melee Replacement?

[Maalox]

I have been thinking about the Shaman because from a purely flavor perspective, this little guy/gal is taaaasty. Most people online seem to talk bad about the dance, but I don't think people are using it tactically at all. It sounds like people just run and plop a druid next to enemies and just sit, watch, then go on the internet and ♥♥♥♥♥.

Anyway, wouldn't the dance be a good melee replacement? You do all the spell slinging you need to do, then instead of running in and hacking away with poor melee ability, why not just close in a bit and dance to get some spirits out? It's the same as autoattacking anyway - point, click, wait. The experience isn't any less boring than point-and-click melee.

I'll be honest, I don't understand complaints people make. For every post someone says something sucks, another person posts proving they blaze through the content with it. I just don't understand powergamers. I really don't.

Thoughts on dancing replacing melee when the spell fun is over? Is that a good tactical use of the dance?

[D'amarr from Darshiva]

One issue is the Shaman's spells are nice, but the dance is too limiting. It takes some time for summons to appear, and they are not powerful compared with your companions. And meanwhile, you cannot do anything else. To make it worse, you either need frontliner companions to hold the line or start with spells that block/hinder the enemies from attacking you. The ghost summons are too random and too unpredictable to replace frontliner companions. Instead of wasting a party slot with a shaman, one could use a different class companion that would be more beneficial.

What makes M'Khiin, the shaman companion in Siege of Dragonspear, worthwhile is the extra story bits. Banter and comments on story/exploration and special build development.

[ÄmJii]

What really ruins the dance is that you can't move, use items OR cast spells, you just have to stand there like a punching bag or your spirit summons just vanishes in thin air. On top of all that, you can't even directly command your summons.

It just seems way too much hassle for little gains.

[Maalox]

Yeah, but I'm talking about using the dance when you'd be in a position where all there is left to do is melee. Also, I tested it with a new toon in BG2, so that's what, level 8? At that level the spirits appeared frequently enough to be more or less immediately useful. I think your concerns are BG1 early game. The randomness/unpredictability is very overstated.

Of course you need companions to hold the line. I don't even get that statement. Who plays a druid like that? Even if you were soloing you'd send in summons first. To top that all off, you'd WANT to unload your spells first. You've got the druid spells with sorcerer casting.

It sounds to me like you're trying to compare it with a fighter. That's apples and oranges. No, that's apples and watermelons.

[red255]

A shaman is like a Sorcerer, it casts spells as they are learned from a pool instead of a memorized list.

it also has 'recall spirit' to raise dead.

Never was tempted to use its dance, but I only used Mzkin during siege of dragonspear. if you did siege of dragonspear you import a couple shaman items into BG2. items aren't bad

*shrug*

Sorc class is fine compared to a mage, shaman class is fine compared to a druid just as what it is.

Dance seemed largely useless.

[Maalox]

Ugh. I've been trying him out and those summons just aren't cutting it. I REALLY REALLY wanted to like this class. I don't mind not being kensage powerful, but the shaman just feels broken. Not the powergamer definition of the word, the literal definition.

I might keep pushing forward a bit with him, hard to say. I really had hopes for this class. It's just so.. freaking.. DISAPPOINTING

[wendigo211]

Yeah, the Shaman has its problems.

• It gets fewer casts per day and knows fewer spells than the Druid. It also doesn't get Wisdom bonus spells. Sure it has spontaneous casting, but with BGs lax resting rules you don't really get that much of a benefit from it and Druid spells don't need to be changed that often.
  
• You miss out on scimitars and good armor. Druids can wear ankheg and dragon plate armors, Shamans can't (They can wear the dragon leathers). Since Druid and Shamans get down to a 6 THAC0, they can be decent meleers if they have extra APR weapons. A Druid can have one of the throwing knives in their main hand and Belm in the offhand for 4 APR (8 with Improved Haste). The Shaman can only get 3 APR (6 with Improved Haste).
  
• Detect Illusion on a class that can cast True Seeing is redundant.
  
• Ghost Dance, as you learned, isn't that hot. It might help if you could control the summons... but there's just better stuff a Shaman could be doing with their time, and the -4 AC penalty while dancing just feels punitive.
  
• Druids can dual/multi-class, Shamans can't.
  
• Shamans only get 8 hitdice instead of 9 like the Druid.

It's probably still a better class than the 3rd Ed. Spirit Shaman, but it's not a great class.

[Iry]

Lack of movement really hurts the class. Spirits will run to the edge of the screen then just stand there.

Let them move very slowly, like they were highly encumbered. That would be a huge quality of life improvement.

[Zotliatlicor]

Cast Invisibility or Improved Invisibility on your Shaman after he has started his dance, and he is a trap bait, spewing out summon after summon.

The summons are immune to normal weapons, and that makes for a great deal of the encounters in SoA.

In a most difficult setting, the Legacy Of Bhaal, a Shaman has a easy time in Irenicus Dungeon, and in many other areas If you set up the trap correct.

[Luka]

How are Shaman are they any good? I heard some people say something about them possibly being good for higher difficulties. Is that true?

[Iry]

They are slow, but pretty strong. If you have time to set up you can make some great traps and tackle some very tough encounters early. But sometimes you die because no spirits answer your call.

Spirits also run off screen and stand there, forever trapped until you give up and unsummon them. It's not a deal breaker but it is annoying.

Early game they can rock entangle + charm to do some great damage. You don't need wisdom so I did 19/10/19/12/12/18 for LoB.

[Luka]

That sounds like a pain. To be honest

[Zotliatlicor]

Originally posted by Lukä:

That sounds like a pain. To be honest

Try it. Is is a good character in a group for when you dont want or need a druid. The good druid spells are very few, and it is effortless with a Insect / healing Shaman as to what to memorise.

The Half-Orc Shaman can have 19-16-16 STR-DEX-CON very easy, so it is a super easy character to roll up, and a good shaman can use Azuredge and be your Axe man when you dont play with Korgan. Throwing Axes are very very good on a 19 STR character.

If you make a strong Shaman avoid useing him for Short Bow, this is temting as he "Can" use them, but DAggers, Axes and Slings benefit from high STR and will deal you more damage all in all.

The extra Spells hi brings to the table are decent, ok, but not godlike. He does get some special HLA abilities, but i cant remember them here and now.

[Luka]

Okay well that does sound more appealing when you put it that way