Fun kits & combos to play

[kae]

I'll be done with ToB soon and I'm already looking forward to starting a new game. i wanna try something new, maybe a kit i haven't tried before. or an interesting class combination. i'm a mage in my current game, so i'm thinking of something else, maybe a thief kit. any ideas? fun times had playing kits or nice class combos?

[Maalox]

I've been having a blast playing both the totemic druid and shapeshifter kits. I'm about halfway through SoA with both and haven't had any problems to speak of. In fact, I'm actually kind of shocked at how strong the higher level druid spells are. The druid kids all just ooze with flavor. I honestly think the Avenger is very overrated and would feel a lot like a mage anyway.

I also think the shaman is underrated as well. It's very unique and a different kind of playstyle, so if you're REALLY looking to shake things up (shaman dance? eh? eh?) I say give it a shot.

I don't know if you're a veteran BG player or not, but I HIGHLY recommend you stay away from any and all powergamer advice. To a powergamer, every class should melee like a fighter and cast like a sorcerer, and anything less is worthless. They literally use the word worthless. Stay away from that crap. There's nothing to learn anyway- we all know dual anything is the strongest. Unless you like reading about how the kensage is great for the 102546444365264th time.

[red255]

there was a guy who did a run where he made a multiplayer party of bards. with various kits. he was treating his band of adventurers as a rock band.

he said they were very weak but he enjoyed playing them.

[Maalox]

Hi highly second the bard option. I can't speak for the other kits, but the blade is very strong. If a person says a blade is weak they literally don't know how to play this game. They're super fun and have a lot of flavor, and it's fun to level super fast. Those arcane spells get beefy with those high levels.

[wendigo211]

Fun is subjective, do you prefer powerful (Berserker/Spell Caster)? Lots of options (Cleric/Mage)? A challenge (Pure Assassin or Kensai)? Are you playing through BG as well as BG 2? Are you playing solo or with a party?

Thieves are a difficult class to play. They go through stages of development: they basically start off as archers who can open locks and disable traps, then once their stealth skills become good enough they can start backstabbing things, then the enemies start becoming immune to backstabs but they get epic traps and the ability to use scrolls and wands so they end up as pseudomages.

For characters who can't cast spells they have crappy THAC0 progression (3 better than Mage) and no extra APR. If you have them dual wield the extra APR weapons they can be respectable meleers (well the Swashbuckler can). But more than the other classes, they are what they use. You need to know where to find the equipment that makes them strong.

As for the kits:

• The Shadowdancer is really strong in BG, but it gets weaker as enemies start being able to detect hidden characters and get immune to backstab.
  
• The Bounty Hunter is a wierd one. It gets extra traps, but at around level 16 the trap changes from doing damage to immobilizing and protecting the target (it's an advantage in that they're out of the fight for a while, but a disadvantage since you can't hurt them while they're out of the fight).
  
• The Assassin gets cheated. By the time you get the higher multiplier the enemies start getting backstab immunity. You end up missing out on thief skill points, with no pay off.
  
• The Swashbuckler is basically a Kensai who can wear armor. You miss out on backstabs, but you end up with a +8 to damage, hit and AC. The Kensai ends up with a +9 to damage and hit for comparison, but also can get Grand Mastery. The downside is one 1 APR (2 with dual wielding) with the right equipment you can get them up to 4.5 APR (which can be doubled to 9 with Improved Haste) but that's using +3 weapons (and there are a handful of enemies who you'll need better than that to damage).

The Swashbuckler followed by the Shadowdancer are probably the strongest of the kits. After that it's probably the basic unkitted thief.

If you just played the Mage, avoid the Bard unless you want more of the same. It's basically playing a Fighter/Mage who doesn't get the extra APR or high level spells the Fighter/Mage gets.

[captainwiseass]

Originally posted by red255:

there was a guy who did a run where he made a multiplayer party of bards. with various kits. he was treating his band of adventurers as a rock band.

he said they were very weak but he enjoyed playing them.

Ah, the Fight for Your Right to Party.

I'll see myself out.

[Sniper Bear]

Originally posted by red255:

there was a guy who did a run where he made a multiplayer party of bards. with various kits. he was treating his band of adventurers as a rock band.

he said they were very weak but he enjoyed playing them.

that must be a sight to behold.

[wendigo211]

Technically it was 5 Bards and a Thief (A shadowdancer who was the backup dancer), he said he needed someone to disable traps and open locks.

The details are here: http://steamcommunity.com/app/228280/discussions/0/1621724915795905242/?ctp=2

[kaiyl_kariashi]

yeah...but Swashy also gets WWA as a HLA in place of Assassination, so for those handful of enemies that need +4 or higher you can just use Shakti figurine (or use a Tenser's scroll), toss on FoA or SotR and then drop them in 1-2 WWA casts.

And just kill the rest of the enemies with dual-speed weapons.


80% of enemies can be hit by +2. about 19% can be hit by +3.

Only about 6 enemies in whole game need +4, and only 1 needs +5.

Some spells can temporarily grant enemies higher immunity but they only last a few rounds and you can wait them out. Or just use a wand of spellstrike or breach them.

[wendigo211]

True, the Swashy is solid at high levels. The real downside is if you play through BG and SoD, there aren't any dual-speed melee weapons until you get the +1 throwing daggers in SoD (and no magic throwing knives until that points). You're really stuck playing a sub optimal archer until you get to BG2. It's not that bad, I've soloed a Swashbuckler through BG on Insane, but it's not something I would want to do again. Just too much kiting stuff around.

[kae]

Originally posted by wendigo211:

Fun is subjective, do you prefer powerful (Berserker/Spell Caster)? Lots of options (Cleric/Mage)? A challenge (Pure Assassin or Kensai)? Are you playing through BG as well as BG 2? Are you playing solo or with a party?

i guess i'm into spells, and always will be. but i'd be able to play a PC mage and use a different class for my main character. i enjoy thieves too. i did try having Rasaad in my party, but i found the no armor+fighting with fists extremely limiting and boring. so i guess i'm thinking something with magic and/or some thieving. i have never tried assassin or kensai and don't even know what they do.

what about specialist mages? did anyone ever try that (and enjoy it)?

playing BG too would actually be a good idea... hadn't thought about it. haven't played since i was a kid, 15 years ago at least... :O would that limit my options of kits?

[wendigo211]

If you're playing the EE, then all the kits from BG2 have been added in.

If you haven't already, you might like playing a Cleric or Druid, it plays a little differently to a Mage but it's a spell caster.

Specialist mages are okay, you lose a spell school but your enemies get a -2 to save against spells from your specialist school and you get an extra cast as day (although the resting rules are pretty lax in the saga, so that's not really a huge bonus). An Enchanter or Necromancer can get some extra mileage from their controlling and death spells with the -2 to save bonus. Unfortunately those schools lose Evocation and Illusion respectively which are two of the more useful schools of spells.

I have used Xan before (Enchanter), and if you are a player who uses a lot of evocation spells, playing an Enchanter can be fun. Honestly, I'd say illusion is too good to pass up to make a Necromancer.

Kensai is basically a Fighter who gets to hit and damage bonuses but can't wear armor (including bracers and helmets). The Assassin is a thief who gets a poison weapon ability and a stronger backstab multiplier eventually, but only gets 15 skill points per level (vs. 25 for a normal thief). The problem with the multiplier is that by the time you reach a high enough level to get the higher multiplier, the enemies start getting immune to backstabs. So you're basically getting poison weapon at a cost of 10 skill points per level.

[kae]

cool thanks. Druid definitely sounds like a fun option. i played Aerie along with my mage, and really enjoyed it. Clerics are good and the combination of Cleric and Mage works excellently together.

an extra cast a day? you mean they get to cast each spell twice, before they have to rest?

[wendigo211]

Originally posted by kae:

an extra cast a day? you mean they get to cast each spell twice, before they have to rest?

No, for each spell level, they can memorize one extra spell. E.g. when a regular mage can cast 2 level 1 spells a day, they can cast 3.

[red255]

not sure how he got 'an extra cast per day' into 'an extra cast per spell.'
No. not what you said. what he said.

+1 spell per level. its mainly useful when unlocking a new level a regular mage would have 1 spell to cast, but a specialist mage gets 2.

[wendigo211]

Kae, you want to look through the manual. There are a couple errors, but it mostly explains what all the kits get and when.