Extremely high citizen instance and path unit count issue

[scheiderr7764]

It may be coincidental, but I have noticed that, since the update, my citizen instance count has skyrocketed along with the path unit count (I have noticed a few other people mention at least high path unit count lately as well). I have tried to find the source of the issue, but I cannot even find many people walking around or waiting at stops. I used to see many many groups waiting at bus stops or in parks and my instance count was much lower. I have read that sometimes cims get stuck or there can be phantom lanes and broken nodes, but I have no idea how to go about diagnosing this. I also recently downloaded the match day dlc, which I know draws crowds. I did have trouble with the match times being stuck, but unless anyone knows if it can cause a bug, it probably too has nothing to do with this.

I've never used these forums before, so I am not sure how to add a screenshot (I will add later if someone can advise)

City 125,000 aprox.
Path units almost 250,000
citizen instances over 64,000
citizen units over 250,000

I would desperately like to save my city. If anyone can help I would be beyond grateful! Thank you so much and my apologies for how long this is.

[jbc34618]

Originally posted by scheiderr7764:

That is crazy JBC34618! I have spent all night using Rico to basically downgrade everything with over 20 residents per place and it helped me get the instances down 20,000 and path units down 50,000. It makes the city feel weird having high rises with 5 residents, but better than alternative I guess.

Do you use a custom map? I use the Kiowa one which I really like, but the roads and pathing seem off as I could not account for a number of citizens, I have nearly 50,000 more people in the city than my population yet my tourists are only 1800 a week.

It seems like it has to be the update. I guess contacting Paradox/Colossal is the only answer, It could be a mod conflict, but no one seems to be having trouble on the ones I checked. Did you have high units and instances along with the pathing?

It's definitely not the map. I'm using one of the vanilla maps anyways. I've put 530 hours into this city and if I can't figure out this path units problem, I'm through with the city and with the game. My path units were 190,000 pre-update and now they are at limit and my public transit lines no longer work. I would have had enough left before reaching limit to really finish my city before this stupid DLC which adds nothing that you can't already do with mods.

[Clunk]

May I suggest trying Broken Nodes Detector. Not only broken nodes as it does other 'tests' on your city as well with 3 additional experimental features added just a few days ago. The new 'Detect Stuck Citizens' revitalised one of my larger cities which I thought was doomed.

What was once a nice-to-have mod has now become an essential mod, for me.

It can be removed and won't break your saves, although you should (and probably do) save with different save names to cover yourself.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1777173984

[jbc34618]

Originally posted by Clunk:

May I suggest trying Broken Nodes Detector. Not only broken nodes as it does other 'tests' on your city as well with 3 additional experimental features added just a few days ago. The new 'Detect Stuck Citizens' revitalised one of my larger cities which I thought was doomed.

What was once a nice-to-have mod has now become an essential mod, for me.

It can be removed and won't break your saves, although you should (and probably do) save with different save names to cover yourself.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1777173984

I've already tried that and unfortunately it didn't fix my issue. I did find some broken paths from my pedestrian service point to my garbage facility. However, when I remove my pedestrian area entirely I don't get my path units back.

[Typpi]

Originally posted by jbc34618:

Originally posted by sueQ:

jbc

I understand you concern but don't panic just yet. Are you suffering any other issues? The reason I ask is that I have been told the path unit limit is not really all that important. Don't know that is true but don't know it isn't either. In the mean time you do know that it is possible to greatly reduce your path units with a well designed metro system right?

Path Units are very important, because when the limit is hit, your transit lines break and trucks are unable to make deliveries, leading to lots of problems. Citizen Instances is the one you are thinking of.

After the 1.15 update my Path Units more than doubled from 190,000 to around 500,000. It's unlikely poor transit network design would cause that so suddenly.

Are you only having this issue after using a new pedestrian area?

I started a new one and I went from 70k path units to over 520k

currently I'm trying to load my pedestrian area city with TM:PE disabled to see if its a bug with the way that interacts with the new road types and service points.

[Typpi]

Originally posted by Typpi:

currently I'm trying to load my pedestrian area city with TM:PE disabled to see if its a bug with the way that interacts with the new road types and service points.

I can confirm that this path unit issue occurs without TM:PE running

so for now, we cant use the fancy new DLC that ruined all the mods and cost us 30 bucks. Great

[jbc34618]

Originally posted by Typpi:

Originally posted by jbc34618:

Path Units are very important, because when the limit is hit, your transit lines break and trucks are unable to make deliveries, leading to lots of problems. Citizen Instances is the one you are thinking of.

After the 1.15 update my Path Units more than doubled from 190,000 to around 500,000. It's unlikely poor transit network design would cause that so suddenly.

Are you only having this issue after using a new pedestrian area?

I started a new one and I went from 70k path units to over 520k

currently I'm trying to load my pedestrian area city with TM:PE disabled to see if its a bug with the way that interacts with the new road types and service points.

Once a pedestrian area is plopped, it's game over. It's as if it starts a feedback loop that eats up your path units and stores them in your save. Even if you delete the pedestrian area, you don't get your path units back. I would have lost my current city had I not went back to my pre 1.15 save and just decided not to use the new pedestrian content.

I don't think vanilla users are experiencing this though, but I could be wrong.

[Typpi]

I will also say that, it only starts to take effect AFTER you place service points. I had a pedestrian area zoned and waiting for a week, started to build in it and boom ,max units.

[Typpi]

Originally posted by jbc34618:

Once a pedestrian area is plopped, it's game over. It's as if it starts a feedback loop that eats up your path units and stores them in your save. Even if you delete the pedestrian area, you don't get your path units back. I would have lost my current city had I not went back to my pre 1.15 save and just decided not to use the new pedestrian content.

I don't think vanilla users are experiencing this though, but I could be wrong.

Not sure about Vanilla, but I did the same thing.

I did notice though, when I tried to fix my city by testing stuff, I deleted everything on the map. Every airplane/ship path, every node, every building, every tree, and there were still 30 net segments and around 40 net nodes.

I tried the node fixer and it found nothing. I am guessing these nodes get generated when the service points are plopped, and then you can't remove them, thus causing the effect that seems to "store it in the save"

[jbc34618]

Originally posted by Typpi:

Originally posted by jbc34618:

Once a pedestrian area is plopped, it's game over. It's as if it starts a feedback loop that eats up your path units and stores them in your save. Even if you delete the pedestrian area, you don't get your path units back. I would have lost my current city had I not went back to my pre 1.15 save and just decided not to use the new pedestrian content.

I don't think vanilla users are experiencing this though, but I could be wrong.

Not sure about Vanilla, but I did the same thing.

I did notice though, when I tried to fix my city by testing stuff, I deleted everything on the map. Every airplane/ship path, every node, every building, every tree, and there were still 30 net segments and around 40 net nodes.

I tried the node fixer and it found nothing. I am guessing these nodes get generated when the service points are plopped, and then you can't remove them, thus causing the effect that seems to "store it in the save"

Interesting find! That definitely makes sense. The feedback loop is likely happening in those nodes.

I have a feeling the entire thing will work fine if/when we get a mod that allows the assets to be used without a service point. Until then, I have a lot else I can focus on in my city.

[Lyze]

I'm also seeing this issue as well - modded, but audited my list before starting this new city and everything is P&P compatible. Started to hit Path Unit limits around 75k population, balanced import/export of 2000 either way, and 75% traffic flow with TM:PE.

Seeing fully maxed path units at ~260k+ and abnormally high citizen instances - 50 to 60k for a population of only 75k.

Anyone figured out a way to either a) find the culprit or b) confirm without a doubt via no-mod testing and reproduction that it's a base game issue with how pedestrian areas are set up? My city is dead in the water until this gets resolved.

[Aekkel]

What mods are you using to see these limits?

I might have this problem in my 125k city, but I'm playing vanilla. TM:PE disable respawn broke with the initial update but I think I have fixed that by resubscribing to the update. Now I can create a traffic jam but businesses aren't getting products and there's a noticable lack of traffic

[Lyze]

Originally posted by Aekkel:

What mods are you using to see these limits?

I might have this problem in my 125k city, but I'm playing vanilla. TM:PE disable respawn broke with the initial update but I think I have fixed that by resubscribing to the update. Now I can create a traffic jam but businesses aren't getting products and there's a noticable lack of traffic

It's a function of Extended Managers Library: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2696146165 - CTRL-L brings up the limits screen.

I let it run as a test with the More Path Units mod (just for testing; I'm not keeping it installed, as I suspect that'll just permanently eat up more path units with this bug if I do), and the limits readout showed the Path Units jump from 262k to 310k in around 20 minutes real-time at highest in-game speed, with vehicles only really going from 3500 to 8000 or so. Something SUPER weird is going on.

If **you are also seeing this issue* and that is confirmed with a view of the Path Units limit, and you're doing a full vanilla game, that definitively confirms it's an issue with the new DLC/patch and how pedestrians/pedestrian areas/pedestrian service points (or any combo of the three) are now handled. If that ends up being the case, time for a bug report on the CO forum so they can take a look.

[Aekkel]

Seems I was wrong, no limits are hit

[TheCrazyHeadGamer]

Hi there !
I have the same cancer destroying my city (65000 citizens, 528k unit paths…)
Did anyone found a solution?

[jbc34618]

Originally posted by TheCrazyHeadGamer:

Hi there !
I have the same cancer destroying my city (65000 citizens, 528k unit paths…)
Did anyone found a solution?

Unfortunately the only solution I've found is to simply not place a service point. I've been using workshop pedestrian roads to build pedestrian areas, since they don't require service points. As soon as I place a service point, that's it for my city.