How to improve airplanes behavior?

[Captain James]

Hi everyone, I'm a bit tired seeing airplanes doing strange and steep turns when approaching and after takeoff. Is that caused on how air paths are located? I've been watching Strictoaster's Seenu videos and he mentionned the same issue. Since (as far as I know) the amount of airplanes coming to the city depends on how many air connections you have, is there another way (maybe mods) which allows airplanes behave in a realistic way but having more than one single air path in the map, as Strictoaster did?

[HEESEUNGIE]

Sometimes changing the takeoff speed will help.
They make better use of the runway.
Advencend vehicle mod lets you make changes to the speed of vehicles and planes.

[grapplehoeker]

It's not just as Strictoaster did. It's what everyone should do ;)
You have to understand the way the game works.
You should be using a single independent air route to link 1 airport to a single outside connection.
So, if your connection is in, say, the west, and you want to use a connection in the east too, then that is possible, but you would require another air route. That 2nd air route must be independent from the first and never linked to the first.
This is the most common error in map design, where map authors will create an unbroken air route from one side of the map to the other. This is wrong. That means that any airport using it will be linked to multiple outside connections and that must be avoided. Any intercity terminal that connects to an outside connection spawns vehicles at the outside connection. Not only that but the loads are shared among all vehicles spawned. This often results in overspawning and inefficient loads.
As for pathing, consider the orientation of the runways to the orientation of the point at which the airport is linked to the air route. You may turn the airport around, or better yet, modify the air route.

[mbutton15]

Originally posted by grapplehoeker:

This is the most common error in map design, where map authors will create an unbroken air route from one side of the map to the other. This is wrong.

I've done the same on my current map and linked both ends to the edge of the map. Haven't actuaclly got round to implementing my airport yet so is there a mod that will let me edit the route on the current in-progress map ? Or is it just a case of not making the same mistake on future maps ?

Also, when laying out the air route should is loop back and join up with itself ? Or how do you end the route if you don't join to the map edge ? I'm just near the end of creating another map so would be good if I get it correct on this one !!

[grapplehoeker]

Originally posted by mbutton15:

Originally posted by grapplehoeker:

This is the most common error in map design, where map authors will create an unbroken air route from one side of the map to the other. This is wrong.

I've done the same on my current map and linked both ends to the edge of the map. Haven't actuaclly got round to implementing my airport yet so is there a mod that will let me edit the route on the current in-progress map ? Or is it just a case of not making the same mistake on future maps ?

Also, when laying out the air route should is loop back and join up with itself ? Or how do you end the route if you don't join to the map edge ? I'm just near the end of creating another map so would be good if I get it correct on this one !!

This mod allows you to modify any kind of route in an existing map,
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=512314255
You can therefore use this to break up an existing map edge to map edge route and redraw it as you wish. I provided an example of this recently when a similar situation with shipping routes required a quick tutorial.
http://steamcommunity.com/app/255710/discussions/0/133260492063422791/

[mbutton15]

Originally posted by grapplehoeker:

This mod allows you to modify any kind of route in an existing map,

Thanks for the links.

[Captain James]

Originally posted by grapplehoeker:

I provided an example of this recently when a similar situation with shipping routes required a quick tutorial.
http://steamcommunity.com/app/255710/discussions/0/133260492063422791/

Ok, now that I've seen the screenshots in the other post, I could finally get it :D Thanks a lot! I'll try it now and see how it works

[Captain James]

Originally posted by Hyunanax:

Sometimes changing the takeoff speed will help.
They make better use of the runway.
Advencend vehicle mod lets you make changes to the speed of vehicles and planes.

Hail to you, thanks for your reply but I was asking for another thing ;) Despite that, it's true what you said, so btw do you know the aprox acceleration/braking numbers of different types of planes (or where to find a post about it)? 'Cause it's not the same a small A320 exiting at the first rapid exit taxiway than a big whale A380 taxiing all over the runway.

[Captain James]

Originally posted by grapplehoeker:

You have to understand the way the game works.

Btw before I forget: how far away (in units or meters) should I place the runways from air paths? Since paths have all the same altitude and approaches have a default slope/rate of descent, it should be different to place the airport just under the path (where airplanes will execute loop-descents to reach the runway height) than placing it far away so that the apch will remain straight and (probably) smooth

[grapplehoeker]

Originally posted by Orlando:

Originally posted by grapplehoeker:

You have to understand the way the game works.

Btw before I forget: how far away (in units or meters) should I place the runways from air paths? Since paths have all the same altitude and approaches have a default slope/rate of descent, it should be different to place the airport just under the path (where airplanes will execute loop-descents to reach the runway height) than placing it far away so that the apch will remain straight and (probably) smooth

Heh I've never measured. It's more of an experienced eye sort of thing. Practise and see what works for you ;)

[Captain James]

Originally posted by grapplehoeker:

Heh I've never measured. It's more of an experienced eye sort of thing. Practise and see what works for you ;)

Roger that sir, I'll let you know if I find something

[mr.v]

Originally posted by grapplehoeker:

Originally posted by mbutton15:

I've done the same on my current map and linked both ends to the edge of the map. Haven't actuaclly got round to implementing my airport yet so is there a mod that will let me edit the route on the current in-progress map ? Or is it just a case of not making the same mistake on future maps ?

Also, when laying out the air route should is loop back and join up with itself ? Or how do you end the route if you don't join to the map edge ? I'm just near the end of creating another map so would be good if I get it correct on this one !!

This mod allows you to modify any kind of route in an existing map,
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=512314255
You can therefore use this to break up an existing map edge to map edge route and redraw it as you wish. I provided an example of this recently when a similar situation with shipping routes required a quick tutorial.
http://steamcommunity.com/app/255710/discussions/0/133260492063422791/

But even the official map that come with the game still use edge to edge for plain, ship routes.

[grapplehoeker]

Originally posted by mr.v:

But even the official map that come with the game still use edge to edge for plain, ship routes.

Yes and it is very annoying!
I always edit all new maps, whether they are from the Workshop or the default maps from CO (who should know better) and break those routes that connect two or more outside connections. They cause too many unwanted issues otherwise.

[Captain James]

Originally posted by grapplehoeker:

Originally posted by Orlando:

Btw before I forget: how far away (in units or meters) should I place the runways from air paths? Since paths have all the same altitude and approaches have a default slope/rate of descent, it should be different to place the airport just under the path (where airplanes will execute loop-descents to reach the runway height) than placing it far away so that the apch will remain straight and (probably) smooth

Heh I've never measured. It's more of an experienced eye sort of thing. Practise and see what works for you ;)

A distance of 3000m works fine for me. So far, a range between 2000m-5000m is acceptable

[Captain James]

Originally posted by grapplehoeker:

Originally posted by mbutton15:

I've done the same on my current map and linked both ends to the edge of the map. Haven't actuaclly got round to implementing my airport yet so is there a mod that will let me edit the route on the current in-progress map ? Or is it just a case of not making the same mistake on future maps ?

Also, when laying out the air route should is loop back and join up with itself ? Or how do you end the route if you don't join to the map edge ? I'm just near the end of creating another map so would be good if I get it correct on this one !!

This mod allows you to modify any kind of route in an existing map,
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=512314255
You can therefore use this to break up an existing map edge to map edge route and redraw it as you wish. I provided an example of this recently when a similar situation with shipping routes required a quick tutorial.
http://steamcommunity.com/app/255710/discussions/0/133260492063422791/

So, the tutorial is very well explained and accurate, it works 100% so thx a lot for that!
Now, the only thing that bothers me a bit is that airplanes won't spawn at all unless you have an airport terminal or plane stand to receive them. That is sort of annoying if you like to see some planes navigating through the map but well, that's the way the game works. I tried to make two types of paths: one leading to the airport, and one connecting two edges of the map far away from the airport. The result? Planes in the first path did an excellent job landing in the RWY, but planes in the second path did an awful, not expected job landing as well. At the end, no airplane wanted to navigate through the map but all were sucked, as a black hole, to the runway. Shame

[grapplehoeker]

Originally posted by Captain James:

So, the tutorial is very well explained and accurate, it works 100% so thx a lot for that!
Now, the only thing that bothers me a bit is that airplanes won't spawn at all unless you have an airport terminal or plane stand to receive them. That is sort of annoying if you like to see some planes navigating through the map but well, that's the way the game works. I tried to make two types of paths: one leading to the airport, and one connecting two edges of the map far away from the airport. The result? Planes in the first path did an excellent job landing in the RWY, but planes in the second path did an awful, not expected job landing as well. At the end, no airplane wanted to navigate through the map but all were sucked, as a black hole, to the runway. Shame

I'm pleased it helped you. Sorry about the persistent behaviour though, there's nothing more I can do about that. You'll have to take that up with CO ;)
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?forums/suggestions-feedback.881/