Basic Fast and Large minecarts vs tubes

[The Ultimate Illusion of Wind]

So in my new world looking to try something new i started messing around with minecarts/tracks.

first and only question why the hell do fast minecarts cost 40 iron 80 copper and 80 tin while LARGE minecarts only cost 12 tin and 10 iron plus one basic minecart.
they run at the SAME SPEED. fast minecarts are twice as fast as basic minecarts while large minecarts are the same speed as basic but hold twice as much.

some oversight i would guess.
next problem at least with long distances. it takes 12+ freaking minutes to go from -358m to -8m
(going up)
( i wanted them to get my t2 bars).

lets do some thoughtput math.
for the basic minecart
just to go up its 12 minutes and it carries 25 items
to get items/min that would be 25/12 which is 2.083 items a minute, the basic conveyor belt runs at 18 items a min so that would mean to get the same thoughtput of a basic conveyor belt we need 18/2.083 = 8.64 (round up because you cant have .64 of a minecart) so 9 basic minecarts. for fast/large(both the same pretty much) that would be twice as fast as the basic so 4.5..(round up again because you cant have half a minecart) so 5 fast/large minecarts.thats not so bad you know for trash tier speed its ok.

what about highspeed conveyor belts?
well we know they run at 120 items a minute so how many would we need to get the same thoughtput as the belt? well we know the speed which was 2.083 items a minute (double for fast/large) so thats 120 / 2.083 which is 57.6..(round up becau...you get the idea) 58. thats 58 freaking basic minecarts or i guess 29 fast/large minecarts

lets do tubes just so i can show you how stupid this is
tubes run 240 items a minute, 240/2.083 = 115.21...116 basic minecarts or you know only 58.ahhahaha 58 fast/large minecarts.

this is just to BREAK EVEN GOING UPWARDS i'm not even counting the time it takes to load/unload and go down.....you can slap on another 40-60% to the amount of minecarts you would need.

i thought to my self hey i found something useful..i thought wrong <.> by the looks of all that its about as bad as the matter movers insane power usage. and while i am compareing the belts with transport set to fast(game setting) vs the minecarts( i dont know if minecarts are affected i tried slow once and i really didn't even want to play that world....SO SLOW)

recap
basic belts vs minecarts = 9 basic or 5 fast/large
normal belts vs minecarts = 58 basic or 29 fast/large
tubes vs minecarts = 116 basic or 58 fast/large
to lay 350 tubes straight up should only take like not even a min... dont even need auto builder.
it took me 15-25minutes to lay the track down and had to wait about 5 minutes for the auto excavators to be done...that also cost loads of power...which is really not a big deal.
while tubes do cost more i guess, you can't over look the fact that you need atleast 58 organic rock just for the minecarts....plus 14 at least for the track length i had. just to break even with tubes thoughtput.

maybe there is something i'm not doing right with the minecarts/tracks or whatever but as it stands i would say that minecarts/tracks are about as underwelming as mass stoarge and matter movers. back to my boring tubes that are just so crazy good.

anyway would like to hear what poeple think about this, maybe some ideas to make them better then they are. they really need it, just like matter movers =S

edit
ok i was just guessing the time it took the basic minecart to go up my tracks... and well i just timed it..WOW THAT was boring. and it took 3 minutes and 20 secs to go down..and 19 minutes and 37 secs to go up with a grand total of 26 minutes and 17 secs to go down and back up....at least with the setup i have...its FAR worse then i thought. 2.16 times worse...please help the minecarts!

[Highlation]

I think this wall of text can be summed up with "Yes we do need a TrackMaster9000 along with boosted rails" Also they payoff for minecarts is, place as many as you want on the track, add loaders/unloaders to match.

Also on a side note, matter movers are VERY powerful at moving small throughput items like missiles, drill cutter heads, mob drops to where they need to go and you really should have turbines before considering matter movers at all.

[Astasia]

I haven't touched minecarts yet so correct me if I am wrong, but it sounds to me like their advantage is unlimited throughput. You build one rail system, and can have all your ores coming up on that system on as many carts as you want. Compare like 1000 carts on one rail system to 10 individual tube lines or something. There is probably a depth where the rail system and a ton of carts is cheaper and faster than several tube lines.

[Darkassassin07]

If it wasn't for the cost in organic rock, I would actually use them use them,
but mostly because there is no limit to the number of carts you can actually have on the track, so assuming you have the resources to make them, and built the track infrastructure to receive the output you could pump 20-30-60 carts a min. it would start off slow, but you could just keep adding carts to the system till you have the through-put you want.

However to make them easier to use, it would be great if there was a track layer that will spiral minecart tracks up a 3x3 or 5x5 tunnel.
To go with it, the auto excavator could have an option to do 3x3 or 5x5, possibly requiring an upgrade...? idk


do camobots spawn mostly in the cold cavern? they drop organic rock I think, I haven't hunted them much.

[goddling]

Originally posted by Auzzi:

If it wasn't for the cost in organic rock, I would actually use them use them,
but mostly because there is no limit to the number of carts you can actually have on the track, so assuming you have the resources to make them, and built the track infrastructure to receive the output you could pump 20-30-60 carts a min. it would start off slow, but you could just keep adding carts to the system till you have the through-put you want.

However to make them easier to use, it would be great if there was a track layer that will lay minecart tracks in a 3x3 or 5x5 tunnel straight up.
To go with it, the auto excavator could have an option to do 3x3 or 5x5, possibly requiring an upgrade...? idk


do camobots spawn mostly in the cold cavern? they drop organic rock I think, I haven't hunted them much.

Yeah I hope he adds vertical rail system as spiral is hard to do.

My effective approch is to use lvl2 bombs to mine down a huge hole to place a large rail system.

[Cellfire]

i have a minecart track getting all my t2 ores to surface.

Really don't see any issues with it. Tube/belt have nothing over minecarts once you set them up.

You only need to setup a single track then to incrase ore throughput all you do is add carts after that.

You can have as many cart as you want on one track. I have easy over 200 large carts. Lost count to how many i have at this point.

[HDL_CinC_Dragon]

Yeah, I think the reason you're upset is because you're comparing everything at a 1x throughput standpoint. Of course tubes are going to annihilate most other options due to the fact that they don't require power and don't need to be protected from cold nor mynocks.

But now boost your operations by 2x... 3x...4x? That's 700, 1050, and 1400 total tubes respectively for a 350m mineshaft(I'm down in the 600m area right now mining biomass and other ores). I don't know about you, but I think tubes are pretty expensive so I don't really wanna have to keep doing massive runs of those! Minecarts you just keep tossing onto the track as your operations expand. Right now my minecart network handles over 90% of my proliferation operations and my source hoppers rarely have anything in them! Though I think if you've got the power for it, a pure matter mover based network would be pretty friggen fast.

tl;dr = I think once your operation expands signficantly you'll see the enhancement that a rail network provides over tubes, movers, or belts...

[OliverP98]

I have started to look at rails lately. I have found that carts are really good if you can set it up in the right way. it takes so much less space than lines apon lines of tubes. i have not looked at running carts down shafts yet, but i dont know if it would be worth it.

[DjArcas]

Fast minecarts are better for vertical layouts, Large minecarts are better for horiztontal ones.

[Dessi]

Originally posted by DjArcas:

Fast minecarts are better for vertical layouts, Large minecarts are better for horiztontal ones.

Reason?

I dont use minecarts. Sure, organic rock is not rare anymore but you need excessive amounts of carts to reach the spead of a conveyor line and placing an autobuilder takes very little time. From a cost perspecive, I doubt that a minecart track is that much cheaper.

[DjArcas]

Originally posted by Dessi:

Originally posted by DjArcas:

Fast minecarts are better for vertical layouts, Large minecarts are better for horiztontal ones.

Reason?

Cuz fast ones don't go much faster along flats, just and down hill.

I dont use minecarts.

T4 will leave you with little option. :)

[Dessi]

Originally posted by DjArcas:

Originally posted by Dessi:

Reason?

Cuz fast ones don't go much faster along flats, just and down hill.

I thought fast carts are simply two times faster? How does it matter if they are two times faster on a straight track or a hill? Two times faster is two times faster. Or is it not?

[The Ultimate Illusion of Wind]

While the thoughtput of the minecarts COULD be ulitmited its just not practical, cough mass storage, whos going to go find 100-200 rock just to get the thoughtput of TWO lines of tubes. and the thoughtput on matter movers is only 1 more item a sec. meanwhile your burning 320 power per sec for that thoughtput( of just one matter mover times that by each mover in the line). yes i get it you don't need to go max speed all the time and it kind of works in some places tbh i could of just ran belts or tubes in its place =/.

minecarts are not better nor are matter movers in any reasonable way.

i just wanted to bring this to light, i would love to use other forms of transport to move items around it would be nice to not have to look at tubes/belts all the time just because they are so good. while i could use other forms right now, it would just be plain stupid to do so.

i don't want minecarts to be god teir or matter movers, its just i want a reasonable thoughtput out of other forms of transport for reasonable amounts of time/items invested into said transport.

[OliverP98]

I use both tubes and carts and i have about 50-60 carts between 2 tracks. Using tracks can make thinks smaller around the base. i have saved myself on tons of tubes and an eye sore near my smelter. i also have carts on the horizontal plane between my base and my OET charging platform (about 150m between them)

I would like to add that carts, at the moment, are only useful to transport ores to a sorter and then to a smelter.

Also finding the organic rock is not difficult at all. Go exploring for half hour or so, you'll be suprised how much rock you will have gathered

[The Ultimate Illusion of Wind]

Originally posted by OliverP98:

I use both tubes and carts and i have about 50-60 carts between 2 tracks. Using tracks can make thinks smaller around the base. i have saved myself on tons of tubes and an eye sore near my smelter. i also have carts on the horizontal plane between my base and my OET charging platform (about 150m between them)

I would like to add that carts, at the moment, are only useful to transport ores to a sorter and then to a smelter.

Also finding the organic rock is not difficult at all. Go exploring for half hour or so, you'll be suprised how much rock you will have gathered

are you takling above ground or below?
i remember in my old world there was alot above ground but i thought because my map was all kinds of broken i thought it was just a bug or something =S

[Astasia]

AFAIK organic rock is created on the surface in the area nukers blow up, an endless supply I think. If you've been getting attacked a lot you can probably head out to where they spawn and pick up ~10-20 rocks, at each spawn area.

A few minutes of caving can get you you a bunch too. They aren't rare at all, I'm not at the point where I'm considering carts, but I have about a stack of organic rock just sitting in a crate. I have not gone out of my way to gather it.