Underground smelting with MK5

[epgeek]

I have a need to increase my tin bar supply, so I was faced with a choice between a long-ish minecart track with some 50m of sloped rails (vein is at -51m), laying down another pipe for surface smelting, or cheesing it by setting up smelters next to the ore extractor. I have some MK5 induction caps for future lifts, and I thought this was a viable solution as a compromise DJ offered when it was nerfed in June or July, so I chose to cheese it until I need the caps.

But it doesn't work: I get the mission message about the smelter starved for oxygen, one bar smelts every 5 minutes, etc. Is this supposed to work, or am I remembering incorrectly? A code peek suggests it's intended to work, but doesn't due the forced induction class not setting the "toodeep" variable in the smelter class.

[Decagon]

This is one of those things I have wondered myself; as I understood it, DJ made Smelters unable to be used underground, but as you said, provided a compromise in the form of the MK5 Induction cap since it is so damn expensive to make and can't really be spammed, to allow Smelters to function normally underground. And yet, the Smelter still screams for oxygen and takes an age and then some to smelt any reasonable number of bars.

If what you say is correct, and the MK5 FI doesn't alter the Smelter's depth status, then I sincerely hope that this gets fixed at some point.

You could use Arc Furnaces to also do the job, but then you'd have to bring the materials into the Cold Caverns in order to smelt them; if the vein is at -51, it's easier to bring it up to the surface than it is to bring it down to the Cold Caverns.

[DjArcas]

Originally posted by Svenson:

Ore Smelters doesnt work anymore underground. Hope tha Arc Furnance will do the job.

MK5 should re-enable this functionality. No-one's ever told me it doesn't work before. I'll pop it on the 'to look at list' :)

[DeinFreund]

Is this still on the to-do list? I'd also understand if it's intentionally left otherwise.

[DjArcas]

Originally posted by DeinFreund:

Is this still on the to-do list? I'd also understand if it's intentionally left otherwise.

I... forgot. To be honest, the clamour for underground smelting went away about 2 years ago really!

[Reaperrazor]

?! Let me get this right, MK5 Inductors could allow for normal smelting at any depth if you added the code?

If so, thats a bit of a game changer to a point. When adequate manufacturing exists I can build mk5s, relocate refining it all on site, and move made bars to an elevator, than ship em up topside. It would allow for much more material to head up per load (on scarce Id see that as a big deal). They are expensive enough that its not something you can feasiblely do til late game, but the throughput is enticing.

Seriously, Id love that kind of ability. And with rooms now this would really work well together. Hmm, take care of existing priorities first those automation and room changes need to be done first.

[Provengreil]

Originally posted by DjArcas:

Originally posted by DeinFreund:

Is this still on the to-do list? I'd also understand if it's intentionally left otherwise.

I... forgot. To be honest, the clamour for underground smelting went away about 2 years ago really!

I bet people just got used to smelting at the surface: I never even played the game with underground smelting.

Making MK 5 smelters work at the same speed as mk 4 but work underground would still be a massive boost to throughput. given the massive changes that would be required in base layout, not to mention the crap that goes into making them, this seems like a change still worth making.

[DeinFreund]

I'm just a huge fan of this game's depth, literally. So I can't help but build processing plants at the magma level the second the toxic filter is unlocked.

Mk5 forced induction are pretty expensive, but if it lets me go deeper I'll build a factory just for them. For now it'll have to be a cargo lift factory, those things were a great addition btw.

[Wariat117]

Originally posted by davidvvn:

Making MK 5 smelters work at the same speed as mk 4 but work underground would still be a massive boost to throughput

increase pps for balance?
(fixed amount or maybe the deeper the more it needs?)

[Provengreil]

Originally posted by Wariat117:

Originally posted by davidvvn:

Making MK 5 smelters work at the same speed as mk 4 but work underground would still be a massive boost to throughput

increase pps for balance?
(fixed amount or maybe the deeper the more it needs?)

IDK that it would need it? by the time this would even happen, you're likely running some significant drain downstairs already: moving the smelting downstairs will force an upgrade to the power lines either way I suspect.

OTOH, it would probably be 24/7 smelting and keeping a smelter hot keeps the drain per smelter minimal. IDK what the pps requirement is for a t5 smelter hat with continuous ore feed, so it might not matter if you've been keeping your power lines up to snuff.

[Reaperrazor]

I agree the demand went away for this feature solely because folks adapted to surface smelting.

But smelting on site is gonna require more logistics to do so (power, equipment, and set up). On plenty rapid MK5s are pointless (takes 2 ore to go at same speed at MK3s with minimal throughput bonus via secondary bonus), while on scare mode alone these MK5s allowing on site smelting would create a massive through put bonus (takes 4 ore per bar, plus the noticable bonus given by the current secondary bonus means elevators can move 4x the bar material and quicker as well).

The MK5s allowing this would be a boon for harder runs, while not doin much (if anything noticable) for easier ones. Making 35 MK5 hats (5 hats per ore sounds like a decent start) is no easy feat. Took me forever to get the stuff for 1 just to upgrade an elevator (but I had very poor throughput at the time)

[Provengreil]

Originally posted by Reaperrazor:

I agree the demand went away for this feature solely because folks adapted to surface smelting.

But smelting on site is gonna require more logistics to do so (power, equipment, and set up). On plenty rapid MK5s are pointless (takes 2 ore to go at same speed at MK3s with minimal throughput bonus via secondary bonus), while on scare mode alone these MK5s allowing on site smelting would create a massive through put bonus (takes 4 ore per bar, plus the noticable bonus given by the current secondary bonus means elevators can move 4x the bar material and quicker as well).

The MK5s allowing this would be a boon for harder runs, while not doin much (if anything noticable) for easier ones. Making 35 MK5 hats (5 hats per ore sounds like a decent start) is no easy feat. Took me forever to get the stuff for 1 just to upgrade an elevator (but I had very poor throughput at the time)

I've actually been braining about automation quite a bit these last couple days, since reading about the next patch: I even started a new world just to take time and work stuff out. One conclusion I came up with is that smelter covers are an excellent target for automation because they are upgrades to themselves. the only difficulty will be getting the right 5 resources into only 3 hoppers, but some zippers ought to work for that.

in fact, after finding a good biomass patch and setting up the auto diggers, smelter hat automation was my next target. My theory is that while they are an unbelievable pain to make on demand, especially in 8's, if I start the process now it'll flow very smoothly.

the real value for DJ, as with several other things, would be in making this necessity more apparent and/or possible at a relevant time.

[Reaperrazor]

Making MK5 hats requires so much equipment automation wise (5 crafters, up to 5 hoppers per, and many different resources total). So yes, it would benefit from automation as much as a test of how good you are at the task.

[Provengreil]

Originally posted by Reaperrazor:

Making MK5 hats requires so much equipment automation wise (5 crafters, up to 5 hoppers per, and many different resources total). So yes, it would benefit from automation as much as a test of how good you are at the task.

I'm not ENTIRELY convinced the full automation is worth it, I'm trying it anyway. putting it all together is going to be a minor nightmare, logistically speaking, and most of the input is just bars. I can grab nearly 6K of each type in under a minute(mass storage has been a mixed blessing so far, this is one of the good things), so if I just plonk down 5 machines each of gold wire, gold pcbs, and titanium plate, then by the time I unlock tier 5 I should be able to make one instantly from scratch with almost no real thought.

It's just that that's not the goal right now.

[Reaperrazor]

Automating Mk5s in p18 will be even worse. But, that's not the lynch pin of this thread

Mk5 Inductors allowing full smelting power at any depth is a wonderful idea for harder difficulties.