Sorting large amounts of bars

[Winterfalke]

So for one of my smelting arrays, I need 4 advanced robot arms for each conveyor line for each type of bar. Without even moving into the top tier bars that's 28 robots per conveyor, and each smelting array will fill 4 conveyor lines. I was running at least one full array for each type of ore when I was sorting ores, this time around I wanted to just dump everything into a line of 5 smelting arrays and sort it all downstream, but the sheer number of robots I would need is just dumb. Are they still just worthless for anything above a couple of smelters? Even trying to set up an advanced filter array seems like it's just stupidly complicated now that bars don't share between hoppers. I really don't want to have to set up several max sized rooms just to sort bars, but it's looking like that's my only option if I want to step up production.

[Wariat117]

In the early game the most popular way to do this...

Each ore has separate smelting area, directly from ore vein into basic smelter (later upgraded to real smelter and caps) and stored this way



In mid game...

People just build big mass storage and put everything inside then use output ports to sort the stuff that is taken from mass storage

[Provengreil]

By the time you automate tier 2 (nickel, gold, titanium) your lines shouldn't even be mixed anymore. Extractors->smelters->processing, with separate smelter sets and logistics chains for each type.


why are they all going through the same line?

[Winterfalke]

They are all going through the same line because I am feeding it with several quarries and a bunch of macerators that run off of bug parts, in addition to having several of the deeper extractors sharing lifts. I really didn't want to have to create several ore sorting arrays to set it all up for individual ores, but I don't really see a better option. I already have a huge mass storage, it's already too big and too slow. I don't really want to make it bigger.

[Provengreil]

Originally posted by Winterfalke:

They are all going through the same line because I am feeding it with several quarries and a bunch of macerators that run off of bug parts, in addition to having several of the deeper extractors sharing lifts. I really didn't want to have to create several ore sorting arrays to set it all up for individual ores, but I don't really see a better option. I already have a huge mass storage, it's already too big and too slow. I don't really want to make it bigger.

Time to make more lifts so you don't have mixed ores coming out of them. A decent sorting array should be able to handle the quarries. bug parts would be better off piped into the cold caverns for storage in cryohoppers and remixed into eyes and/or stingers, and therefore lighten your load.

Sorting in this game is slow, probably specifically to encourage making separated lines: I'd only use it with a quarry. I even just feed macerators back into themselves sometimes if I don't feel like sorting anything(usually on rapid).

[Winterfalke]

So, storing bug parts in cryohoppers is pretty much a waste of time, I'll probable have 1k massive faceted eyes and 3-4x that many stingers by the time I even get my OET up. On top of that, only the ruined bug parts even need cryohoppers, and they are better used for power generation. I went through all that on my old world and it was a massive waste of time and power. As for making more lifts, it's in the plans, but I currently have about 40 other things I need to finish before I get there, so it's not going to happen any time soon. Sadly it looks like mass storage is my best option, as bad as it is.

[syro]

When I was sorting bars, I built rows of hoppers with each hopper having two advanced filters pulling out specific bars, and of course the inverse passing everything else down the line. To reduce backup, I built parallel copies of the line stacked vertically and used turntables on the first four hoppers of each line to load-balance between the lines.

I'm not sure its possible to build a sorting system that never clogs unless there is some mechanism to shunt overstocked bars into a macerator. With independent smelting lines, an overstocked bar will clog the line all the way to the ore extractors but not block any other bar types or waste resources.

[eggymatrix]

...or you build individual lines for each ore up to the necessary craft items:
eg:

tin ore-->tin bars-->tin plates (SPLIT, hooper or mass storage) -> lightweight machine housing
copper ore->->copper bars -->copper wire (SPLIT, hopper or mass storage, power booster line, motors line)

and so on. It is massively easier to just dig 3 shafts to -400ish for the nikel, gold, titanium than to set up a not-clogging sorting facility that can output ebroided-fancycubes at a decent speed.

[Siro]

Originally posted by Winterfalke:

They are all going through the same line because I am feeding it with several quarries and a bunch of macerators that run off of bug parts, in addition to having several of the deeper extractors sharing lifts. I really didn't want to have to create several ore sorting arrays to set it all up for individual ores, but I don't really see a better option. I already have a huge mass storage, it's already too big and too slow. I don't really want to make it bigger.

One way to limit the number of robot arms for your type of setup is to set your output to run into a ring of conveyors such that items continuously circle the ring until the arms can remove them. However, this is fundamentally a 'low-bandwidth' solution if you want to limit the number of robot arms.

If you're reaching the point where you need a much higher bandwidth sorting solution without separating lines, that would be to set up a mass storage unit as a buffer, absorbing all bars and then set outputs to specific bars at specific ports to accomplish sorting. This sort of buffer sorting works well for the kind of setup you have and is useful early through late game as long as you make sure to upgrade the ports. Additional bandwidth can be obtained by adding more input and output ports, so be sure to leave room to do that. Be aware that if bar usage stops on a particular type, you may run into problems with that ore backing up and clogging the system. So you may need a fairly big mass storage at the end of your lines to ensure everything keeps moving.

But as others have implied, maximum amounts of bandwidth involves individual per ore type machine lines and often times multiple lines per ore type. The advantage of per ore type processing lines is that if one particular ore backs up, it can be allowed to do so without causing all the other types issues. However, if you're already deeply invested in your current build, you'll still be able to finish in a reasonable amount of time using a mass storage buffer to separate bars without needing multiple large rooms.

[Chris]

No way that using 1 lift for 2 types can work at all. Not with sorting or Storage.

Your lift will stop working, if you have one type full on the surface.
You can never use both types with same amount over a longer time.
Yor storage will ever be too small. Run the world 1 year.

Second: If you get endles ore up (in a storeage that cover the world), you need to find endless new ore sources. Andless work where you need time to fight against cryo.

Third: DJ reduces the ore conentration by 1/10 in next patch. You need to find 10x often a new ore source.

[Winterfalke]

Originally posted by Siro:

One way to limit the number of robot arms for your type of setup is to set your output to run into a ring of conveyors such that items continuously circle the ring until the arms can remove them. However, this is fundamentally a 'low-bandwidth' solution if you want to limit the number of robot arms.

If you're reaching the point where you need a much higher bandwidth sorting solution without separating lines, that would be to set up a mass storage unit as a buffer, absorbing all bars and then set outputs to specific bars at specific ports to accomplish sorting.

I already have a conveyor ring to support the robot arms I do have running, it's just not realistic to scale it up. The 'mass storage as a buffer' seems to be the best current mechanic for sorting on a large scale as far as I can tell, so as much as I don't like mass storage, it's what I am going with.

Originally posted by eggymatrix:

. It is massively easier to just dig 3 shafts to -400ish for the nikel, gold, titanium than to set up a not-clogging sorting facility that can output ebroided-fancycubes at a decent speed.

Yea, it's not. If it was that much easier to run seperate lines I would have done it by now. I had a massive parallel setup in my old world, and it was a massive chore that grew more and more complicated to keep organized as it grew. I literally gave up because it was taking actual weeks just to rebuild when I ran out of room. It's so much easier just to dump everything from all the sources into one massive linear smelting array that I can expand near endlessly and sort that into individual storage to pull resources off of.

Originally posted by Chris:

No way that using 1 lift for 2 types can work at all. Not with sorting or Storage.

Just because you can't do it doesn't mean I haven't, successfully and on a considerable scale.

[Nedrith]

Originally posted by Winterfalke:

Originally posted by eggymatrix:

. It is massively easier to just dig 3 shafts to -400ish for the nikel, gold, titanium than to set up a not-clogging sorting facility that can output ebroided-fancycubes at a decent speed.

Yea, it's not. If it was that much easier to run seperate lines I would have done it by now. I had a massive parallel setup in my old world, and it was a massive chore that grew more and more complicated to keep organized as it grew. I literally gave up because it was taking actual weeks just to rebuild when I ran out of room. It's so much easier just to dump everything from all the sources into one massive linear smelting array that I can expand near endlessly and sort that into individual storage to pull resources off of.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1409382512

If you start organized it's not too hard to keep organized. I can move as much as need to through that line, and it gets dropped off exactly where I want it to and gets placed into the building to be processed. The building is also expandable in the same direction as the minecart tracks. I've had to move some processing around inside the room and it's very, very simple and quick. just move a few unload stations around and a few grommets along with the processing machines.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1409382174

9 lifts, because even 1 basic lift per a resource never fits my needs. 3 per a resource works I'd still rather have 2 improved per a resource but I'm working on it!

Everything gets smelted right when it leaves the lift and gets thrown on a minecart. Could probably be more efficient and combine them into the same hopper per a lift before minecarted it, but didn't think of it when I was designing everything.

[Crazy9000.Eps]

Originally posted by Winterfalke:

Yea, it's not. If it was that much easier to run seperate lines I would have done it by now. I had a massive parallel setup in my old world, and it was a massive chore that grew more and more complicated to keep organized as it grew. I literally gave up because it was taking actual weeks just to rebuild when I ran out of room. It's so much easier just to dump everything from all the sources into one massive linear smelting array that I can expand near endlessly and sort that into individual storage to pull resources off of.

How do you deal with not needing as much of one ore as another though? If you have a lift bringing up mixed titanium and nickel, and for awhile don't use much titanium but still need a lot of nickel, the lift would eventually fill up with titanium and stall. The only things I can think of involve making enough storage space for the whole veins worth (lol) or trashing the extra which seems wasteful.

[Provengreil]

Originally posted by Winterfalke:

Originally posted by Siro:

One way to limit the number of robot arms for your type of setup is to set your output to run into a ring of conveyors such that items continuously circle the ring until the arms can remove them. However, this is fundamentally a 'low-bandwidth' solution if you want to limit the number of robot arms.

If you're reaching the point where you need a much higher bandwidth sorting solution without separating lines, that would be to set up a mass storage unit as a buffer, absorbing all bars and then set outputs to specific bars at specific ports to accomplish sorting.

I already have a conveyor ring to support the robot arms I do have running, it's just not realistic to scale it up. The 'mass storage as a buffer' seems to be the best current mechanic for sorting on a large scale as far as I can tell, so as much as I don't like mass storage, it's what I am going with.

Originally posted by eggymatrix:

. It is massively easier to just dig 3 shafts to -400ish for the nikel, gold, titanium than to set up a not-clogging sorting facility that can output ebroided-fancycubes at a decent speed.

Yea, it's not. If it was that much easier to run seperate lines I would have done it by now. I had a massive parallel setup in my old world, and it was a massive chore that grew more and more complicated to keep organized as it grew. I literally gave up because it was taking actual weeks just to rebuild when I ran out of room. It's so much easier just to dump everything from all the sources into one massive linear smelting array that I can expand near endlessly and sort that into individual storage to pull resources off of.

Originally posted by Chris:

No way that using 1 lift for 2 types can work at all. Not with sorting or Storage.

Just because you can't do it doesn't mean I haven't, successfully and on a considerable scale.

Apparently not, if you're asking for help, though turning down suggestions out of hand is really weird.

And taking weeks? What difficulties could you possibly be running on? Greg, and the time is for getting enough iron? I can't imagine a greg mode smelter setup that beats a sorting machine though....

Can we have some screenshots or something? Something's not making sense.

[Winterfalke]

Originally posted by Nedrith:

If you start organized it's not too hard to keep organized.

Lol you said the magic words, there. I started in between 4 large hills, and everything below me is either open cave or massive copper, tin, and coal veins. Between getting blown to kingdom come and back by tunnel nukers 10 minutes into the game, having no even relatively flat surfaces to work from, and having the nearest iron and lithum several hundred blocks away through those same 5-20M veins, there was never any organization. Just scrambling to keep everything just barely working so I'm not getting destroyed by wasps every 2 minutes. I have like 5000 of each bug part in my inventory just from running back and forth trying to get stuff built before I got my Falcor network up and going, it still has some spotty coverage. And getting back to having no flat place to work, I really don't want to have to spend days clearing out space to build those max size rooms that you look like you need there.

[Winterfalke]

Originally posted by Crazy9000.Eps:

How do you deal with not needing as much of one ore as another though?

My previous world ran for like 400 hours like that, and with multiple tube runs coming up from below with mixed ore and biomass. Massive amounts of storage and buffering hoppers. I never ran into a situation where I didn't have something I could make to use up materials, and until the 19 update broke everything I was carrying around like 200k of each bar, with double that amount stored in mass storage and bulk hopper arrays. I spent many, many weeks digging out storage caverns...