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So far, a majority of the time, I've found that the correct profiles are loaded if I go back to an aircraft that I've previously assigned the profiles to and flown. There are a couple of things to keep in mind though.
1. It won't auto select profiles for you that it thinks are the correct ones if you change aircraft and haven't previously chosen them - it will just load the defaults.
2. Variants of the same airframe (i.e. Cargo vs Passenger that you can choose from when configuring your aircraft) will often store separate profile settings so you will need to select the required profiles for each variant.
3. Don't rely on the GIVE IT A NAME prompt when making changes. If you are going to make changes to create another profile use the cog settings icon to DUPLICATE the profile you are going to work on (which will force you to give it a unique name) before making changes to it.
I have started to use the "SET DEFAULT" in all my configuration Groups so everytime it pops up another "Enter as name" dialog while working in the SAME DAMN AIRCRAFT, It gets EXACTLY the same name, as I copy and paste it as I go.....
I have not yet proved that helps, but advice on the forums seems to indicate this is tthe way to move forward.
This whole system is so convoluted, I do not believe there is anyone, other than perhasps the Asobo employee who had a nightmare one night and sicked this whole mess on us in retribution for his nightmare !.
But joking apart, it would be really great is someone could produce a decent document that actually Explains the logic behind this in words of one syllable so that at least the rest of us can join in the developers joke ?
Think of it this way. For EACH controller you have connected (I have 7) you will need to set all 3 levels of the profile for each aircraft (and as above often each airframe or maybe even livery).
The top group is the GENERAL profile and one single profile per controller will likely be enough for all of the aircraft you fly.
The second group is AIRCRAFT TYPE specific - i.e. Airplane, Helicopter, Lighter Than Air etc. Those profiles cannot be shared between aircraft type groups. For each AIRCRAFT TYPE group you will likely have 1 or more profiles. For Airplanes for instance, you might have 'Single Prop', 'Twin Prop', 'Twin Jet', 'Four Jet' and many other profiles that apply to specific airplane groups. For Helicopters you might have 'Single Engine' and 'Twin Engine' or whatever. You will need to do these separate profiles for EACH controller vs AIRCRAFT TYPE group which is quite tedious when starting out. It is perfectly feasible though to set this group to NONE for any given controller if there are no specific bindings mapped for that AIRCRAFT TYPE.
The third group is aircraft specific and unless that aircraft has some specialist feature that needs a binding this will often be left as NONE.
Every single assignment you can set has labels against it - GENERAL meaning it belongs to the top group profile, AIRPLANE / HELICOPTER etc. meaning it belongs to the second group profile (you'll only see those that belong to that AIRCRAFT TYPE) and then the third group which, I apologise, can't remember if it uses the aircraft name or says SPECIFIC (sorry).
Be vary wary of binding conflicts. You can set the same binding on multiple controllers and whilst in some cases this is quite legitimate (maybe a hatswitch to look around configured on both a yoke and joystick) there are other situations where you would be blind to these conflicts without analysing all of the control profiles you currently have selected.
It is also perfectly acceptable though to have multiple assignments on a single binding. For instance you could set Wing Deice, Prop Deice, Airframe Deice etc. to a single switch if you wanted so that they all operated together.
I have one question in regard to your last comment regarding the Set "Default" option, which you recommend NOT to use. I spent a lot of yesterday (before reading your last comment) and I have set up around 5 aircraft, setting each of them to the "Set as Default" setting. This has certainly corrected one of my problems in that re-entering Free flight does NOW select the correct aircraft setup on loading {Yeaaahhh]...
However, i DO NOT use the "Apply to all aircraft" option anywhere at all. Your comments appear to confirm this, UNLESS of course you are creating a VERY GENERIC profile for something like cockpit views for instance, which will not really change no matter what aircraft you may find yourself in ?
One issue I did find out the hard way was that I kept loosing settings because when I was forced to provide a name for a profile area I was working in, and I hit "Set As Default" to save the setting I had just created/edited, It seemed to override the entries that were in the previous group I had "Set as Default" ? Can you confirm this ? I think you are referring to this behaviour in your last message in a slightly different manner.
So basically. if you will kindly bear with me, my understanding of the best way to handle this horror show right now is as follows :
1. Load an aircraft into free flight and spawn it at an airport of your choice.
2. Select something very generic, say the Cockpit view that you already have a "preset" for as this SHOULD automatically select that generic profile you created previously ?
3. IF YOU MAKE CHANGES to this, save it with a different name ? If not, do nothing.
4. Select an Airplane style Profile, say a Yoke or Hotas, Setup ALL the things you want that Profile to handle, [In one go without coming out and saving anything] covering aircraft control, cockpit views using a Hat on your Yoke/Hotas, the Brakes, Landing Gear, Secondary Controls and Trimming options etc. Then use the "Set as Default" option BEFORE saving this profile. I like to go right out to ensure it has been saved completely, then come back in if needed.
As to the GENERAL GROUPS, I think you should again try to setup everything it is to include BEFORE saving it.
This means we should have just ONE named profile for the Airplane, that has "Set as Default" flag set. However, we will almost certainly have multiple General Profile areas, because when you switch between input devices, it demands a new name.
What I do not (yet) understand is how the sim will know which one of the potentially several different GENERAL profiles it will load ? Presumably it switches between them in some way, or multi loads them all into memory as a single lookup table to handle everything that is NOT an Airplane item ? Sorry, that is just my s/w developer/programmer hat showing again :-))
I would very much welcome your feedback and any criticism of the above ?
Yes, you can only have 1 default and I think it's probably badly coded so that rather than the actual profile name being mapped to the aircraft in the case of 'set as default' it's actually mapped as 'default' behind the scenes and therefore doing a lookup to identify what the 'default' profile is and switching to that on load. If that is the case then effectively all aircraft currently using 'default' for that profile group would now get those new mappings / profile applied when "Set as Default" is ticked on a different profile. I haven't tried to confirm that's the case but a bug or badly designed feature making it behave this way would certainly account for why so many people keep complaining they're loosing settings if they happen to be using "Set as Default", hence why I'd advise to keep clear of it.
In step 4 I personally wouldn't use "Set as Default" for the reasons outlined previously. Once I've created a first profile at any level that I could use as a basis for building from there's no real need for it. If you create a new profile you are likely doing so because you will apply it to specific aircraft only which you can do as and when you come to fly them the first time. If you edit an existing profile it's because it needed updating and all aircraft that currently use that profile will pick up the changes associated with it anyway after you save those changes. For the latter case you won't need to give it a new name unless you are using one of the original defaults that the game applies as you can't edit those. Personally, the first thing I'd do for every controller profile is duplicate the game originals before I started working on them.
Think of each profile level per controller as completely unique. If you have a GENERAL (top level) profile for your yoke called "Airplane" and a GENERAL profile for your hotas called "Airplane" they are not the same profile.
Likewise for your yoke if you have a GENERAL (top level) profile called "Airplane" and an AIRCRAFT TYPE (middle level) profile called "Airplane" they are not the same profile. They are completely unique profiles containing completely unique mappings. If you filter the assigned mappings for that controller those that have the GENERAL label will be contained in that top profile, those that have the AIRPLANE (or whatever) label will be in the middle profile etc.
For the middle (AIRCRAFT TYPE) profiles you could have 1 for airplanes called "My profile" and one for helicopters called "My Profile" and they are again completely unique profiles.
In FS2020 each controller would have 1 profile loaded at any given time. In FS2024 each controller has 3 profiles loaded at any given time but any specific control mapping you can set can only ever belong to 1 profile for any given controller. Which level (and therefore which of the 3 profiles) each mapping belongs to is already determined in the game, you have no control over that. Views, for instance, belong to the top GENERAL profile but something like a cyclic mapping for helicopters would be in the AIRCRAFT TYPE profile and only be available to map if your currently selected aircraft was a helicopter. The confusing bit is that the mappings listed on the right of the page are actually summed based on the aircraft currently selected, the controller selected, the 3 profiles selected for that controller and the filter selection at the bottom of the page (assigned, essential, none).
Hence the reason why a GENERAL profile for a given controller can be applied to any aircraft but an AIRCRAFT TYPE profile can only be selected for aircraft of the same type.
Haha. Don't worry, I've spent the last 3 decades in software QA, I'm used to working with developers ;-)
In fact, to your original sentence "You have obviously done a lot of work in Settings TestMonkey ?" -nope, I'm just used to having to second guess poorly designed or documented features.
That explains it, for sure QA experience will definitely give you a heads up on this sort of problem !
Your points regarding not giving a Airplane and a General setting the same name is well understood. My problem comes when I already have say an "Airplanes" preset for that lovely A2A Comanche 250 named "Comanche 250", but when I move input devices from say Yoke to Throttle, although Throttle is also an "Airplanes" setting, the preset does not select that profile, and in fact it often cannot even be found in the left side list of presets, so I need to duplicate whatever it has come up with and rename it - BUT TOO WHAT NAME. ?
In other words, if I rename it to "Comanche 250" in the same way as my original "Default" profile, which is the only logical solution, do I ALSO use the "Set as Default" option on it or hope it is picked up by the ORIGINAL preset and presumably combined internally [Another Data table] ? I seem to get different results each time I have to do this. Sometimes the settings are there, other times one or other have got lost.
I just went thru my Presets, and was not surprised to find that I had a load of duplicate named items with identical names in both groups. So I bit the bullet and deleted every duplicate I had, ending up with JUST TWO General entries, but still 18 Airplane entries.
I am now about to go thru these one by one and see what I have left ? I will report back here on my findings for you - if you do not mind ?
I would welcome your comments on the above ?
You couldn't find the profile when switching from your yoke to your throttle because your yoke profiles have nothing to do with your throttle profiles - they are completely unique entities. At that point you could create another profile for your throttle and also call it "Comanche 250" but it will be related to your throttle only. The three profiles listed on the left only apply to the controller selected above them.
The only time a relationship exists between them is when using the controllers. If you have switch inputs for your landing gear, as an example, set on both your throttle and yoke you'd get control clashes in the game with conflicting inputs being read from both. Even then this only applies to 'continuous' inputs such as switches or axis. Momentary inputs from say buttons or hat switches aren't a problem if configured more than once as they are exactly that - momentary and so don't clash.
You don't need to use "Set as Default" no. On the left you have your aircraft, controllers and profiles listed. Whatever combination of profiles you have set for each controller is also matched to that aircraft when saving and exiting that screen. You are creating a profile for the Comanche 250 (if that's the aircraft displayed) so you don't need to do anything other than save it.
If you wanted to use that same profile for another aircraft you simply pick that aircraft / controller / profile combination and save / exit the screen again. If you didn't change any mappings then you haven't updated the profile, simply associated it with that aircraft. If you think you might need to make changes at some point for that aircraft or think still using the profile called "Comanche 250" would be confusing when using that plane just duplicate it and rename it to something that makes sense for that aircraft. When you save and exit the screen the profile applied to that aircraft will be this new one even though you didn't actually change any mappings - the name will just make more sense.
2 GENERAL entries and 18 AIRPLANE entries sounds about right. Having identical names in both the GENERAL and AIRPLANE groups is not a problem. You might find some of the latter you can remove to reduce the number further but that's not excessive.
Regarding my 2 + 18 in my last paragraph, that is what it showed when I was in the "Edit" mode, but when I went back into settings later, there were a lot more..... It is things like that that throw me totally.
I will try your suggestion re NOT using "Set as default", it would make life easier for sure.
I notice that if you set the Filter to "Assigned" it does show you EVERY command covered by the currently selected preset, which is useful, but I am a little confused that this is showing both "Airplane" and "General" items in it ? This is useful to check if you have missed anything in the setup for that aircraft.
This Assigned mode seems to reinforce my theory that the system combines all these into a single data table" which is what is showing in the "assigned" display ?
You said : "simply pick that aircraft / controller / profile combination and save / exit the screen again." I assume you mean that you save this using duplicate if you want to use it for a different aircraft ? That raises another of my interminable questions, as when I search through the presets, not all of them are present ?
That's because you have both General and Airplane profiles selected for the controller. If you set one of those profile selections to NONE I would expect the related mapped entries would get filtered out from the list on the right when you have "Assigned" set for the bottom filter.
The list on the right is the sum of the parts - controller selected + the 3 profile entries you currently have selected for THAT controller + the filter applied (and of course you need to consider the currently selected aircraft as well because the list of possible assignments will only include what is allowed for that aircraft). I think this is what is confusing many people, they expect to see everything as well as all of the profiles they've created but that's just not how it works - everything on that page has a relationship to everything else on the page. Anything selected on that page will influence what else can be selected / viewed on that page.
It probably does in terms of what it generates to show in the UI, maybe even in the backend when flying as well. On the other hand it could just start with a list of EVERY possible mapped control in the game and filter what gets displayed in the table based on the aircraft / controller / profiles / filter selected - basically coming at it the other way round. That's certainly the way I'd code it if I was doing it as you are then only updating which entries from the array get displayed whenever someone makes a selection change in the UI, rather than having to rebuild the array every time. You need to take your developer hat off though and stop trying to second guess how it's doing it and come at it from an end-user WYSIWYG angle :-)))
No, you don't need to save it as duplicate if you want to use it for another aircraft. The game is creating a relational map between the aircraft and the profiles currently assigned for each controller when you click save and exit that screen. If you have profiles across your controllers that work for a 2 engine jet you would use the exact same profiles for all of your 2 engine jets.
Try to think of it like 2020. You would create certain profiles for each controller that suited certain types of aircraft. Whenever you wanted to fly with one of those aircraft you would have gone to the controller section and, for each controller connected, pick the correct profile that was suitable for that aircraft.
2024 is essentially exactly the same except you now have 3 profiles per controller, each related to a different subset of the possible mappings, and the game SHOULD remember which ones you had selected last time you saved them for that aircraft so that you don't need to manually change them each time you switch between aircraft at a later point.
The only time you need to create a duplicate of a profile is if you wanted to make changes to the mappings it contains BUT DON'T want those same changes to be applied to all the other aircraft currently using that profile.
And of course you can't edit the initial profiles that belong to the game, only ones you've created, so if you wanted to change one of those you'd need to duplicate it first - even if you wanted that change to apply to all aircraft using that profile.
Creating duplicates is creating possible future work for yourself. Say you have a profile for 2 engine jets as above and use that same profile for all 2 engine jets. If after a month of playing you decide that switching a couple of the button mappings on your controller makes more sense you only need to change it in this one profile and save it once. If you created duplicate profiles for each of your 2 engine jets you'd now need to go through and apply the same change to every single one of those profiles.
One of the reasons they've created this layered profile system is for exactly this reason. In many cases, a single General profile for a given controller might be sufficient for all of the aircraft in the game. If you wanted to change one of the mappings that belongs to that group you now only need to do it once. In 2020 you would have had to make the change to every profile you'd created for that controller.
As mentioned previously, everything on that screen on one section has a relationship to the other sections.
- You'll only see profiles that you have created against the currently selected controller.
- You'll only see profiles that you have created that can be applied to the currently selected aircraft.
That last point could be prudent because if you've got aircraft ported over from 2020 (or even just 3rd party aircraft in general) then the config for that aircraft might not identify the aircraft type to the game correctly. So say you've created a bunch of profiles for helicopters and you now select a 3rd party developed helicopter and go to set the controller profiles for it. If the game doesn't know it's a helicopter it won't show you any of the previous helicopter specific profiles that you had created.
This is the one part of the new controllers setup that I find frustrating because you can't even get to see what you might have mapped to another profile at that point in order to duplicate it and use it as a basis for the new profile you now need to create.
I've already been put off trying some of the new aircraft that I wanted to because at the time I've come to fly them I either couldn't be bothered, or didn't have the time, to mess around building out whole new controller profiles for them.
I have just started to rework ALL my presets drastically, following your very lucid description as above, and can see exactly what you have been saying in full detail. It is indeed very confusing, as even the "Assigned" listing only shows the ( 2 maybe 3) selected presets, NOT all the ones that apply to the currently selected aircraft, and that does make it very much harder to create a new preset based on one or more of the existing presets I have worked so hard to make as generic as possible.
I can see that it is working, and now understand your comments in far more detail, so again, MANY THANKS indeed for all the time you have spent responded to my questions and theories.
I now have several days work ahead of me to get all the aircraft I want to fly configured successfully in FS2024 !!!!
You're welcome and it's been a pleasure to help out. Just glad you were able to piece the jigsaw together and hopefully these threads we've been back and forth on here might help some others put the pieces together as well.
It probably won't surprise you that back in the last century, before the long road in QA (for my sins), I worked in tech support for a brief stint. In fact my 'peak' in the games industry was probably getting QA Lead, User Manual and co-Producer credits all on the same title - way back last century as well lol. I only got the one writing credit though so clearly my prose isn't that great - kudos to you for getting your head round it :)))
There are undoubtedly some bugs in the controller setup and some controllers that really aren't playing nicely with the game but I suspect 70%+ of the 'my profile is missing' and 'configurations aren't saved' etc. errors are down to people getting in a muddle with the new screens.
You can email me at ian . chopperaddict gmail com
(Remove spaces and place period between last 2 words as a normal email address)
The sim does not preselect anything sensible when I spawn a different aircraft, I have to go through virtually the whole setup system again, time after time after time !!!!!
One of the biggest bugbears, and one I cannot understand, which is also probably why 2024 cannot select a default profile as well. It goes like this :
Create a Controls profile for the C172, and lets call it :
#1 - "Controls, single engine, 2 seats, mix + prop"
which is an "Airplanes" type profile, and this name defines it to me as handling aircraft controls suitable for a single engined, 2 seat, propeller aircraft with just throttle & mixture adjustments.
Now, the first problem that comes up is that this "Airplanes" style profile rather weirdly does NOT include the Rudder, but when you switch to the Rudder as the input device, it also (logically) comes up as a "Airplanes" type.
So I name this one EXACTLY the same as the previous one :
"#2 - "Controls, single engine, 2 seats, mix + prop" in line with my Aileron + Elevator Controls profile name.
So now I have TWO DIFFERENT PROFILES to just handle the basic controls, but with identical names.
Now I want to use a top hat on my WinWing stick to move my view around the cockpit, so I select my stick as the input device again, There is NO CHANGE in the bottom left profile lists until I select the Camera as the device I want to configure, when it then switches to a different profile, which is a General type profile, ....
So now I have to select a different General style profile
I cannot add these to my #1 profile because the views are in the "General" grouping, so I create a new "General" profile named :
3# - "General-Cockpit views"
Next, I need to hand my Warthog Throttle input, so I have to create yet another "Airplanes" type profile, so I will name this one
4# - "Throttle, single engine, 2 seats, simple"
So now I already have THREE DIFFERENT "Airplanes"style profiles for this one aircraft, plus one "General" style profile.
So what does 2024 select as the default on spawning a new aircraft. It obviously does not know because it never selects anything usable. ?????
There are many different items I will need to support in this profile as my throttle has a lot of useful switches and axis controllers available for me to use. However, depending on what I want to configure, I am absolutely certain to have yet another profile of one or other types as I work through items such as Prop, mixture and Condition control, external aircraft lights, Cockpit view changes etc etc.
This system just becomes more and more impenetrable to me ?
Can anyone put me out of my misery Please ?