AHiT and PEGI

[lukwik]

Once I mentioned about the AHiT's rating when the game's got showed in the Direct promo. Now we know that the Gears for Breakfast's game is going to be T-rated, but there's one problem. What about PEGI? If you looked at their games list, you'll see that A Hat in Time keeps the 7+ rating (with no mention about the Switch release).

This game has like 3 reasons to be 12+ and it's still keeping the rating like after being tested for a minute or two? o_0

[Miri Ryllis ミリス]

They are two different companies with their own reasons to rate things as they do

Personally I feel the ESRB has a stick up their ass to give this game a t rating

E10+ would be what I go for

[Kelrycor]

I don't want to judge neither the ESRB, nor the PEGI rating from a ethical or educational point of view.

But taking a closer look an PEGI, I can only think of three events in the game that might leap over the bounds of a PEGI 7:
1. mashed mafia boss in the jar, but still alive and sound
2. the myurder on the owl express
3. Snatcher and Vanessa

According to https://pegi.info/ the PEGI 7 classification is:

Originally posted by Official_PEGI_7:

"Game content with scenes or sounds that can possibly frightening to younger children should fall in this category. Very mild forms of violence (implied, non-detailed, or non-realistic violence) are acceptable for a game with a PEGI 7 rating."

So, coming back to the three mentioned points:
1. This is falling under non-detailed or non-realistic violence.
2. The myurder did not happened as you we found out later on.
3. Vanessa has just some frightening scenes, but nothing too harsh. Snatcher is rather cute/annoying. Depending on your personal view ;)

So if you ask me, there is no content that needs a PEGI 12 classification. So PEGI 7 is absolutely fine for AHiT as there is no PEGI 10 existing.

[lukwik]

If I remember correctly, the game's target audience are the 90's/pre-2000's 3D platformer fans.


*sigh* Those "3 reasons" I mentioned are also the content descriptors this game should have.

1. "Horror" - mainly because of Vanessa. Snatcher doesn't count because why? Sure, this game have the "Fear" descriptor, but this mainly counts for 7+ games and even then, those games with "Fear" aren't even scary at all. However the Queen Vanessa's Manor is a level that obviously would take more than just a concern how this game can be even for kids.

2. "Violence" - Mustache's "killing machine" plan and the Murder on the Owl Express. Even if the second case ends up to be fake, this doesn't excuse it in first place.

3. "Bad Language" - not an issue outside the British audience, but still the case as Sonic Rush Adventure was at first rated 12+ because of that. Later re-releases have an English dialogue "tweaked" which eventually lowered the rating. Some random mafia goons have b&##er off written on their aprons and in the Mustache Girl's cave (as well as in Hat Kid's spaceship after her trespass) have lots of s@d off. Also should we talk about the "Why?" achievement in 7+ game?


BTW, I had mentioned in my previous thread that AHiT is B-rated in Japan and because of their different rating standards as well as the fact that there's no any rating between A (all ages) and B (12+), with their rating and ESRB's later response I can only guess that this game is not really for kiddos. FOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL!

Originally posted by Kelrycor:

So if you ask me, there is no content that needs a PEGI 12 classification. So PEGI 7 is absolutely fine for AHiT as there is no PEGI 10 existing.

Um... what? PEGI 7 is between 3 and 12 much like E10+ between E and T in ESRB system.

[Kelrycor]

Originally posted by lukwik:

Um... what? PEGI 7 is between 3 and 12 much like E10+ between E and T in ESRB system.

Yes, it is rated in between, but to make things clear: PEGI 7 means that PEGI does consider the content suitable for 7 aged and older. This must not mean that your particular child is suited to it either. Every kid is different in its developement, you as a parent have to know how your kid is ticking. PEGI does only give you a guidance, not a fixed rule you have to obey, based on, I guess, averaged research results.

To quote PEGI again:

Originally posted by "Offical_PEGI_rating":

Age ratings are systems used to ensure that entertainment content, such as games, but also films, tv shows or mobile apps, is clearly labelled with a minimum age recommendation based on the content they have. These age ratings provide guidance to consumers, parents in particular, to help them decide whether or not to buy a particular product for a child.

So if you know your child has a thin skin and can't handle strong language, violence or shocking moments, even if it is 10 years old, you may consider not to buy a PEGI 7 game for it.
For my nephew for example, he is much more mature than his physical age. He is 10, but neither do I not have problem letting him watch things for 12+, nor do his parents. He is still a good boy and not spoiled.

So the PEGI rating is quite fine, but only if the parents don't switch off their heads. Read and understand PEGI rating, know your kid, act according to it. It is this easy.

[lukwik]

Originally posted by Kelrycor:

Every kid is different in its developement, [...]. PEGI does only give you a guidance, not a fixed rule you have to obey, based on, I guess, averaged research results.

You talk about kids and parents. Not me. And I know that PEGI ratings are more or less just a guidance, it's not the USK after all.

The problem is that PEGI didn't really cared about looking at this game, playing it and rating it. A Hat in Time is an indie game without any significant publisher (Humble Bundle doesn't count) and much like many other non-mainstream games - those are more or less ignored by PEGI in terms of content control.

[Kelrycor]

I don't know if PEGI doesn't really care - those are just assumptions without solid proofs I guess.

What I know is, considering the kind of the game and the parameters that PEGI describe on their page for rating, PEGI 7 seems to be the proper judgement for the game's content. At least it is how I feel about it after playing the game. Maybe the person(s) in charge by PEGI was the same opinion like me after checking the game. If it were someone else, maybe the rating would have been PEGI 12 instead? Who knows. But I doubt they are going to re-judge it. Only if a a significant amount of official complaints reach them (from parents, or anyone else, stating that the rating is just wrong and why).

There will always be different opinions, so you seem to be more "concerned" about the rating than me. That is absolutely fine with me, and it is always good to question things and not just take them as given. So why you don't get in touch with PEGI and tell them they misjudged it? That would be the proper solution.

[lukwik]

Originally posted by Kelrycor:

I don't know if PEGI doesn't really care - those are just assumptions without solid proofs I guess.

I dunno, could be even that the developers got their game first rated via International Age Rating Coalition's questionnaire and its results. This could explain why AHiT was originaly rated E10+.

Originally posted by Kelrycor:

There will always be different opinions, so you seem to be more "concerned" about the rating than me. That is absolutely fine with me, and it is always good to question things and not just take them as given.

Honestly I don't really care about the rating, but originally I've once complained about CERO's rating for A Hat in Time so. Many responded that this game wasn't for kids anyway.

Link to my thread if you're interested.
https://steamcommunity.com/app/253230/discussions/1/1679189548067668978/

Originally posted by Kelrycor:

So why you don't get in touch with PEGI and tell them they misjudged it? That would be the proper solution.

Should I really try to tell about this to PEGI? rly? Shouldn't Gears for Breakfast point it instead?

[Kelrycor]

Originally posted by lukwik:

Honestly I don't really care about the rating, but originally I've once complained about CERO's rating for A Hat in Time so. Many responded that this game wasn't for kids anyway.

Even now I really feel that you do care about it, that is why you started multiple discussions about the ratings of different organisations. Let me put it straight:

For PEGI, as I do not know what the word "mild" really means for them, the rating for PEGI 7 could be still ok. PEGI 12? No, I don't think the content must be locked down to someone at least being 12. Unfortunetaly, there is nothing in between, only special tags in the PEGI system.

ESRB's T rating is very narrow minded if you ask me... fantasy violence and blood is the main reason it seems. But ok, better not let your kid play it than giving it a trauma. So I am fine with it also. At least no one gets hurt by this decision

The CERO rating is indeed a little bit ridiculous. You are absolutely right about it. This is a total misjudgment. Especially for the very strict and serious Japanese system it seems more than weird. I totally agree with you on this matters.

Originally posted by lukwik:

Should I really try to tell about this to PEGI? rly? Shouldn't Gears for Breakfast point it instead?

Absolutely. I mean, why should GfB care about a rating that opens the game to a wider audience? They are not responsible for the poorly done ratings from organisations they are not linked to in any way. Indeed, if they value a good customer service, they might get in touch with these organisations themself after reading your posts, but it is not their direct business.

I mean, if they notice that a rating is too high or strict, and they loose paying customers, ok, GfB will for sure react, but the other way around is nothing that will probably happen.

As an example: if there is a big mistake in the educational school system you noticed, it is best to contacting the responsible governmental institution directly. Speaking with a teacher about it won't change anything.

That is why it is best to send a direct complaint to PEGI or CERO for the ratings. Tell them why you feels so. Maybe they realise their mistake because they get a lot of complaints, or because of the severity of accusions, and finally change their ratings asap. But it is up to them, and up to you as an end user and a good person feeling responsible to point mistakes out, to do so.

Don't wait for GfB to react, honestly.

Edit: You can also consider to report it to Valve, as it is published on their platform. They have a proper customer service, GfB probably not as it is just a small indie software studio. Valve might relay your concerns, but what I wrote about GfB does probably apply to Valve, because having a lower rating does mean more money. So they most likely won't care as well and just write you a nice answer they are "looking into it". But nothing will happen afterwards. So the right way is still turning the right cog and address it to PEGI and CERO directly.

[lukwik]

Originally posted by Kelrycor:

I don't think the content must be locked down to someone at least being 12.

You're misinterpreting me. I'm not going to restrict anything. As I said earlier PEGI is majorly for a guidance.

Originally posted by Kelrycor:

The CERO rating is indeed a little bit ridiculous. You are absolutely right about it. This is a total misjudgment. Especially for the very strict and serious Japanese system it seems more than weird. I totally agree with you on this matters.

True, but even CERO's content descriptors explains that their system is basically sensitive.

Originally posted by Kelrycor:

Absolutely. I mean, why should GfB care about a rating that opens the game to a wider audience? They are not responsible for the poorly done ratings from organisations they are not linked to in any way.

Again, RLY? Do I seriously have to take it fully personal and contact PEGI for what they've just done?

Also about the wider audience - no problem with that, it makes this game more apparent in the market, but please look at some responds from the previous thread.

Originally posted by Kelrycor:

That is why it is best to send a direct complaint to PEGI or CERO for the ratings. Tell them why you feels so. Maybe they realise their mistake because they get a lot of complaints, or because of the severity of accusions, and finally change their ratings asap. But it is up to them, and up to you as an end user and a good person feeling responsible to point mistakes out, to do so.

BTW, CERO is a Japanese organisation, also they could respond that this game is not going to be A-rated because of in-game lawbreaking and horror, at least. This game would need to be toned down for consoles here, just because of this.

[Kelrycor]

For CERO I really doubt myself they will change their mind, whether you, GfB, Valve or anyone else will contact them. According to their rating system, AHiT stands no way getting an A rating. The problem here is that they don't have a rating in between A and B. This you already pointed out yourself.

GfB and Valve seem to be not interested to take up a fight against CERO. At the end it always comes down to making money for a business. If GfB doesn't think that it is worth it for the net profit, it can't be helped. They can't force CERO, or any other rating organisation, as they are not on their payroll.

If they don't fight, only the end user can. This is why I suggested you can write to CERO instead if you really want to change anything. It is at least a minor chance. - better than nothing. If you don't want to, it is absolutely fine. But I do see that you really seem to care about the current situation, so this is my best advise I can give you.

This is just my opinion, and I am often mistaken in my life - so do what you are comfortable to go with.

[lukwik]

I've just said about CERO that's not going to happen. We don't need to continue it.

I thought that we're still talking about PEGI, etc. :/

[Kelrycor]

Yeah, somehow the topic changed. But my answer applies also to PEGI, because it is basically the same issue: if you want something to be changed for PEGI, or its game rating, best way is to contact PEGI directly. Best solution. If you don't want to do that, just don't do it. Simple as it sounds :)