You could NEVER convince me match making isn't rigged

[m8kr]

I was playing A LOT of rocket league. Maybe 10-20 games a day and practicing in freeplay, workshops, dribbles, rings, etc. It was looking like it wasn't paying off, I was getting insanely better and my rank wasn't budging at all. But then I slowly started to climb up, DII, DIII, CI, alll most champ II, then the losing queue. Game after game after game of insanely horrible players (for being diamond/champ that is). I went from nearly CII all the way down to DII.

So I quit. 4 days not a single game of rocket league. All of my hard work meant nothing, My rank went right back to where it started. After the four days I played a MAX of 5 games a day. First day I won all 5, second day 4/5, 3rd day 4/5, this whole week, playing only 5 games a day, winning nearly all of them. No practice, no warm up, no drills, no nothing. I am now almost in champ II again.... Not doing a damn thing...

Now I know you fan bois are going to make some mental argument, "yea man you were burnt out, needed a break. Now you are playing your max blah blah blah." OR the, "you came back and were excited to play so now you are playing better...." Truth is I didn't want to come back, in fact I have thought match making was rigged for a while, so I DELIBERATELY only played 5 games with 0 practice to see what would happen. In fact as I am writing this, I feel completely unaccomplished in getting back to champion, why? It wasn't me, it was an algorithm that setup the matches.

As for the tilt or playing worse because of mentally being off your game, sure there is basis to this. I mean sports psychology is a real thing, BUT in this game its the same pattern. destroy game after game, then **flick**, light switch goes on and its time to lose. Additionally other components of life happen. IF these losing streaks were completely psychological, mood would play a significant role in the reversal of such terrible games, but it does not. When its time to lose in rocket league, its time to lose.

My personal belief... video game match making is being skewed to be more lenient to average players. They are designed to have highs and lows to get players addicted, much like gambling. Sure I have no proof of this, though there are articles I have found that would strongly insinuate this as fact. In rocket league I have come to see it as a tethering effect. The game thinks you are suppose to be at a particular rank, if you lose too much, you are allowed to win again to return to this "home" rank. If you win too much, you will be forced to lose until you return to the rank the game wants you at. Granted, as you get better, it slowly but surely allows you to gain minimal increases in your home rank.

Long rant, but I truly do believe match making is rigged. You win when the game wants you to, and lose when it wants you too as well. I might keep playing, who knows. I figure to the average person, who cares if it is rigged, its suppose to be fun right? But slogging through another 20-30 games designed to make me lose, is not and will never be fun.

[Waffles!]

bro you need a hug?

[xdaneo]

I agree, this is rigged like FIFA. At least with that game we'll see the truth soon (momentum).

[The Wok]

i agree, happened to me many times
you win like 8 games in a row, then you lose more than 10, sometimes it just feels like a secret feature in the matchmaking
i hit GC today and i already know im gonna drop hard soon, just dont lose your focus when you're angry

[TommyEV]

man if you spent so much time in the ringy trainings that must have been so useful against real players

[Ripashel ♿ ッ]

guys, the hell are you talking about? in my case i have more stable graph than topic starter, a few mmr drops happened in season start but thats all! O_o

for me this is still pure psycological thing, i even dont care about rank and having a good time in ranked soloQ 3v3 (Europe region)

[m8kr]

Originally posted by xdaneo:

I agree, this is rigged like FIFA. At least with that game we'll see the truth soon (momentum).

Yup that was one of the articles I read trying to find out if this could actually be done, or is a real thing. I first remember experiencing "tilt" in NHL maybe 08, 09? Puck would just not go into the opponents net and they would score some stupid nonsense.

Originally posted by average scout enjoyer:

i agree, happened to me many times
you win like 8 games in a row, then you lose more than 10, sometimes it just feels like a secret feature in the matchmaking
i hit GC today and i already know im gonna drop hard soon, just dont lose your focus when you're angry

Well congrats, I hope you don't but its almost predictable in this game.

Originally posted by Ripashel ♿ ッ:

guys, the hell are you talking about? in my case i have more stable graph than topic starter, a few mmr drops happened in season start but thats all! O_o

for me this is still pure psycological thing, i even dont care about rank and having a good time in ranked soloQ 3v3 (Europe region)

I wish it was purely psychological, but there is no way it is. I spent 14 years in the military, I am an expert at not letting external factors affect me. I have tried many different techniques to end a rocket league losing streak.... nothing works. Thought like I said last week I may have found the answer, just stop playing....

[Specific Beef]

Why is it so hard to accept that as you climb the divisions, games become harder to win? Why come to the conclusion that there's an enormous conspiracy?

The idea of a secret system to pair you up with bad players when you do too well makes no sense in many ways, but I'll pick four of the biggest.

1. You think there's a system in place that stops you from staying in Champ and brings you back down to Diamond before it lets you win again. Someone else believes in the same system, only it feeds them bad team-mates until they've fallen from GC to Champ. Someone else thinks the evil programming knocks them out of Gold into Silver.

How does the system know where to stop you rising and when to let you start rising again, and why is it different for you than other people?

2. You have a solid belief in a system that identifies "bad" players in your rank to pair them with you. This would be a great conspiracy if Psyonix hated you personally because of that time you did that thing at prom years ago (don't ask me which thing, you know what you did), but you insist it's a system that's happening to everyone.

How can this system work? How does it have two spare "bad" players for every player it needs to target? And if you are losing these games and ranking down, so therefore are your team-mates, so they're out of the pool. What happens eventually in such a system? Do you see the problem here?

3. How does Psyonix keep the lid on this scandal, about which nobody ever talks? Does Psyonix have employees quietly assassinated whenever they leave the company?

Why would it make sense to do something so incredibly dangerous to the game's future, when it's completely unnecessary. You're talking about adding in an artificial system to make the game increasingly difficult to win as you rank up, when simple player competition already does that.

4. But here's the big one: if this system exists, what's it for?

I hear this so much — "Psyonix rigs the mmr system, they only care about money" — how does pissing you off help to make money? Do you buy more decals when you're angry? Explain this to me.

[m8kr]

Originally posted by Specific Beef:

Why is it so hard to accept that as you climb the divisions, games become harder to win? Why come to the conclusion that there's an enormous conspiracy?

The idea of a secret system to pair you up with bad players when you do too well makes no sense in many ways, but I'll pick four of the biggest.

1. You think there's a system in place that stops you from staying in Champ and brings you back down to Diamond before it lets you win again. Someone else believes in the same system, only it feeds them bad team-mates until they've fallen from GC to Champ. Someone else thinks the evil programming knocks them out of Gold into Silver.

How does the system know where to stop you rising and when to let you start rising again, and why is it different for you than other people?

2. You have a solid belief in a system that identifies "bad" players in your rank to pair them with you. This would be a great conspiracy if Psyonix hated you personally because of that time you did that thing at prom years ago (don't ask me which thing, you know what you did), but you insist it's a system that's happening to everyone.

How can this system work? How does it have two spare "bad" players for every player it needs to target? And if you are losing these games and ranking down, so therefore are your team-mates, so they're out of the pool. What happens eventually in such a system? Do you see the problem here?

3. How does Psyonix keep the lid on this scandal, about which nobody ever talks? Does Psyonix have employees quietly assassinated whenever they leave the company?

Why would it make sense to do something so incredibly dangerous to the game's future, when it's completely unnecessary. You're talking about adding in an artificial system to make the game increasingly difficult to win as you rank up, when simple player competition already does that.

4. But here's the big one: if this system exists, what's it for?

I hear this so much — "Psyonix rigs the mmr system, they only care about money" — how does pissing you off help to make money? Do you buy more decals when you're angry? Explain this to me.

All valid points man, and I know it sounds crazy and stupid but let me offer you some things to consider.

first, the system isn't specifically targeting me or any player to make us lose, it merely feels that way. The main goal of their system is to keep people playing the game. Just like social media is designed to get your attention and keep it, so too is the matchmaking. Imagine you don't have much time and only play 1-2 games a day. You would stop playing if everyday those 1-2 games were loses, regardless of rank. So the game is going to pair you with teammates it thinks is more competent and capable of carrying you.

Why would this never come up? A few reasons, number one, the people designing these features feel they are improving the game for the majority of players, its not done in malaise. The more people play, the more successful the game is, they have a vested interest. When they leave the company, if they would speak out and a future employer finds out, they would not be hired. Most obviously, getting more people to play their game makes them more successful and thus they can earn more money. How long was it before tobacco admitted it was addictive and kills people? Certainly a video game designer who makes a matchmaking algorithm to create a 50% win loss ratio sleeps perfectly fine at night.

If it was only me who experienced these extreme win and loss swings, I wouldn't arrive at a conclusion that the match making is rigged, BUT there are many people who experience this. In a game designers eyes it makes it more exciting. Slowly ranking up game after game would be considered boring. Also in all fairness, you wouldn't notice this at all if you didn't improve a significant amount in a small time period.

Finally look at my rocket league tracker skill rating over time:

https://rocketleague.tracker.network/rocket-league/profile/steam/76561198061202051/mmr?playlist=13

I did some very BASIC math. y(2)-y(1)/x(2)-x(1) which gives you the slope of a line. I started on the 27th of Jan roughly a month or so before I started practicing so much. So 27th of Jan=x=0 and the last day I took today June 12=x=136.

On 06/04 my ranking was 947 (128, 947). measured from day one to then (0, 851), an average increase of only 0.75. From low point to low point. Only 8 days later my rank increased to 1,101 where it is now (136, 1101). From day x=0 Jan 27th, its an average rate of change of 1.84. Here is where I know match making is in fact ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥. From 06/04 to 06/12, 8 days... where I played only 5 games a day, my rank went from 947 to 1,101. An average rate of increase of 19.25. In 5 days of playing.

If I could get a function for my rank over time, specifically the last 6 months, I am confident that if I took the derivative during any of the major losing or winning streaks, they would be similar if not identical. Indicating there is an underlying mathematical process happening in the algorithm.

So was I playing like dog piss and deserved to be in DII or was something else at play?

[Waffles!]

Originally posted by m8kr:

Originally posted by Specific Beef:

Why is it so hard to accept that as you climb the divisions, games become harder to win? Why come to the conclusion that there's an enormous conspiracy?

The idea of a secret system to pair you up with bad players when you do too well makes no sense in many ways, but I'll pick four of the biggest.

1. You think there's a system in place that stops you from staying in Champ and brings you back down to Diamond before it lets you win again. Someone else believes in the same system, only it feeds them bad team-mates until they've fallen from GC to Champ. Someone else thinks the evil programming knocks them out of Gold into Silver.

How does the system know where to stop you rising and when to let you start rising again, and why is it different for you than other people?

2. You have a solid belief in a system that identifies "bad" players in your rank to pair them with you. This would be a great conspiracy if Psyonix hated you personally because of that time you did that thing at prom years ago (don't ask me which thing, you know what you did), but you insist it's a system that's happening to everyone.

How can this system work? How does it have two spare "bad" players for every player it needs to target? And if you are losing these games and ranking down, so therefore are your team-mates, so they're out of the pool. What happens eventually in such a system? Do you see the problem here?

3. How does Psyonix keep the lid on this scandal, about which nobody ever talks? Does Psyonix have employees quietly assassinated whenever they leave the company?

Why would it make sense to do something so incredibly dangerous to the game's future, when it's completely unnecessary. You're talking about adding in an artificial system to make the game increasingly difficult to win as you rank up, when simple player competition already does that.

4. But here's the big one: if this system exists, what's it for?

I hear this so much — "Psyonix rigs the mmr system, they only care about money" — how does pissing you off help to make money? Do you buy more decals when you're angry? Explain this to me.

All valid points man, and I know it sounds crazy and stupid but let me offer you some things to consider.

first, the system isn't specifically targeting me or any player to make us lose, it merely feels that way. The main goal of their system is to keep people playing the game. Just like social media is designed to get your attention and keep it, so too is the matchmaking. Imagine you don't have much time and only play 1-2 games a day. You would stop playing if everyday those 1-2 games were loses, regardless of rank. So the game is going to pair you with teammates it thinks is more competent and capable of carrying you.

Why would this never come up? A few reasons, number one, the people designing these features feel they are improving the game for the majority of players, its not done in malaise. The more people play, the more successful the game is, they have a vested interest. When they leave the company, if they would speak out and a future employer finds out, they would not be hired. Most obviously, getting more people to play their game makes them more successful and thus they can earn more money. How long was it before tobacco admitted it was addictive and kills people? Certainly a video game designer who makes a matchmaking algorithm to create a 50% win loss ratio sleeps perfectly fine at night.

If it was only me who experienced these extreme win and loss swings, I wouldn't arrive at a conclusion that the match making is rigged, BUT there are many people who experience this. In a game designers eyes it makes it more exciting. Slowly ranking up game after game would be considered boring. Also in all fairness, you wouldn't notice this at all if you didn't improve a significant amount in a small time period.

Finally look at my rocket league tracker skill rating over time:

https://rocketleague.tracker.network/rocket-league/profile/steam/76561198061202051/mmr?playlist=13

I did some very BASIC math. y(2)-y(1)/x(2)-x(1) which gives you the slope of a line. I started on the 27th of Jan roughly a month or so before I started practicing so much. So 27th of Jan=x=0 and the last day I took today June 12=x=136.

On 06/04 my ranking was 947 (128, 947). measured from day one to then (0, 851), an average increase of only 0.75. From low point to low point. Only 8 days later my rank increased to 1,101 where it is now (136, 1101). From day x=0 Jan 27th, its an average rate of change of 1.84. Here is where I know match making is in fact ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥. From 06/04 to 06/12, 8 days... where I played only 5 games a day, my rank went from 947 to 1,101. An average rate of increase of 19.25. In 5 days of playing.

If I could get a function for my rank over time, specifically the last 6 months, I am confident that if I took the derivative during any of the major losing or winning streaks, they would be similar if not identical. Indicating there is an underlying mathematical process happening in the algorithm.

So was I playing like dog piss and deserved to be in DII or was something else at play?

My dude, very few people have a straight line to success in this game. Nearly everyone's rl tracker is going to look like mountains and hills. Some days, your rank will spike up because you're making the right decisions and find people who work well with you. Other days, you find people who are on a losing streak and you're just not doing well either which causes your rank to tank. Save your replays. Analyze what is going on. Most of the times, we find that it is not our teammates but rather ourselves. If your teammates aren't doing well and ballchasing, play defensively. Don't play with just one playstyle. One playstyle may work with one set of people but it won't work well with others. You have to adapt. If they are aggressive, you play defensive. If they're always rotating back and not putting pressure on the ball when they should be, be more aggressive. You have to ber adaptive. There is no algorithm out to get you and ruin your experience. I've been stuck in diamond for over a year and finally reached champ yesterday. I've gone from D3 to P3 in one week and it took me a month to get back up to D2. That is just the way it is. You can't apply math to something like this.

[m8kr]

I do appreciate your optimism Waffles but I also think you are naïve in this instance. Math was made for this express purpose, to predict and explain phenomena.

You also prove my exact point, there shouldn't be such violent movements in ranks. But you chock it up to ah, oh well ♥♥♥♥ happens, that's how it goes.

"Introduction: Gamblers' enduring illusions of control (IOC) may be one reason why they continue to gamble in the face of sustained losses. If gamblers persist in the belief that they have special skills, knowledge and other advantages when gambling, they may be able to convince themselves it is worth doing again"

Tell me again how that's not you after a massive losing streak?

[Waffles!]

Originally posted by m8kr:

I do appreciate your optimism Waffles but I also think you are naïve in this instance. Math was made for this express purpose, to predict and explain phenomena.

You also prove my exact point, there shouldn't be such violent movements in ranks. But you chock it up to ah, oh well ♥♥♥♥ happens, that's how it goes.

"Introduction: Gamblers' enduring illusions of control (IOC) may be one reason why they continue to gamble in the face of sustained losses. If gamblers persist in the belief that they have special skills, knowledge and other advantages when gambling, they may be able to convince themselves it is worth doing again"

Tell me again how that's not you after a massive losing streak?

Well after re-reading your title. I see there is no point in trying to convince you. Have a good day sir and happy rocketing!

[Hamless Hog]

Sounds like it’s just in your head tbh. It’s just a ranking system, you and others get ranked accordingly. Hovering around the same rank supports this as well

[Lord Dazed & Insane]

Ok

[rehnaldinho]

I actually like your approach to explain your theory rather than just swearing and whining.

But a sample size of 1 really doesn't proof anything scientifically and given your overall mindset it rather hints to the psychological explanation imo.

Still you can't explain how it's done. How is the game able to constantly finds you the perfect two bad teammates that will guarantee you a losing streak and vice versa. That has to be one of the most advanced tool ever, taking every possible skill, current shape, mindset, their internet connection, their likeliness to afk in the game, etc. of every player perfectly into account and still not making the result too obvious to everyone. If you think it's just a matter of MMR, just install bakkesmod and check the MMR after every game to find irregularities.

I don't even disagree that video gaming companies are super aware of psychological phenomena that work in their favor like you described, but in this case I really don't see it.

[Avalanche]

I doubt people will believe this is rigged, it would shatter the illusion that they have built around their experiences, they think they are uber good, but the game really does decide when you win and when you lose.

Am i saying i am uber good? no, i have gotten to Diamond II and i have unlocked Diamond season rewards 3 times i think or is it 4 times, with this current season? anyway, i really do think this game is rigged or the matchmaking system is utterly broken and needs a hard reset.

I mean, i am wondering what will happen if a group of players, enough for teams of 2 to do private matches without the aid of the matchmaking system, where players of a given rank would play together like a Tournament, but not a real tournament, i have faced against Diamonds and even Champions in private matches and have held my own against them, i ultimately lost, but they said, i was good enough to be high Diamond to Champion rank, this is when i started to think the system is rigged or broken, but since others have experienced it, i think it is rigged now more than ever.

Do i think i should win every match and never lose? no, if i won all the time or lost all the time, i wouldn't bother playing, it would be boring, maybe that is why they have this system in place to make sure we don't win too much or lose too much to get bored or frustrated and stop playing.

Or this is there way of making sure everyone wins at some point, think of it like a Participation trophy.....hey congrats, you were there. lol you know? Very Patronising if you ask me.