Ranked system is stupid

[JaddahSVK]

I just want to say, that your "ranking" system is really stupid. same amount of wins (high goal ratio) and same amount of looses (small goal ratio) = in the end, division DOWN! wth? This happened more than once for me, some wins were not calculated into ranking before!! (after 4 wins I was still stuck in same division)

[PacoPlaysGames]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von 57th AngryHatter:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von PacoPlaysGames:

It seems no matter what, one loss can undo any amount of wins.

Then how does anyone climb in rank?

Sorry for not being clear. The point I was trying to make is that the punishment for losing is way to severe. Even if you had a fantastic game and lost by one very close goal you are most likely getting deranked even if you had a few games before where you destroyed the other team. I have had this happen with me and my friend multiple times. I'm just wondering why losing is so punishing even if you just barely lost?

[Meelis13]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Volodesi:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Gaz:

I have started another thread about how abyssmal the ranking system is but today I experienced the cream in the crop of proving my point - I won a game and went down a division. Explain that to me....

What kind of match? 1v1, 2v2, Solo 3v3 or normal 3v3? Time and Timezone would also help,

mate, it happens a lot. sometimes it doesnt even display until NEXT match of same type is over. In ALL types of rank- heck, i even made topic about it before i noticed this one. cant say exact times though. Also, i had few cases where i ranked down while i was sleeping- and im not talking just 1 division down, im talking 3-4 down (3vs3 normal).
To put it in season 1 scoring- it literally makes you feel like win is 8 points (if you are lucky) and loss is -40 points.

[♡ TF2 Hat Collector ♡]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Volodesi:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Gaz:

I have started another thread about how abyssmal the ranking system is but today I experienced the cream in the crop of proving my point - I won a game and went down a division. Explain that to me....

What kind of match? 1v1, 2v2, Solo 3v3 or normal 3v3? Time and Timezone would also help,

Volodesi is a great moderator.

[Chushki s bob]

Strange. Seems to work fine for good players.

[Fiddle Gastro]

Let's assume you have a 60% win rate.

Playing 10 matches and winning half of them SHOULD drop your ranking if it continues to occur, as you're trending towards a 50% win rate, especially if those losses included games against poor opposition.

[Meelis13]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Noidenous:

Let's assume you have a 60% win rate.

Playing 10 matches and winning half of them SHOULD drop your ranking if it continues to occur, as you're trending towards a 50% win rate, especially if those losses included games against poor opposition.

But how come? Troughout my RL experience, i do have 51 percent win rate in overall- and i do mean overall, including casual & season 1 matches. I have well over 2000 games on record. So if rank system is indeed based on percentage of wins, it is unfair towards regular players, who would have to win more and more matches to notice change in the rank. Im betting some players already have few thousand games on this season as well. To change win percentage from say, 50, theyd have to win at least 100 games to notice a difference

[Fiddle Gastro]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Meelis13:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Noidenous:

Let's assume you have a 60% win rate.

Playing 10 matches and winning half of them SHOULD drop your ranking if it continues to occur, as you're trending towards a 50% win rate, especially if those losses included games against poor opposition.

But how come? Troughout my RL experience, i do have 51 percent win rate in overall- and i do mean overall, including casual & season 1 matches. I have well over 2000 games on record. So if rank system is indeed based on percentage of wins, it is unfair towards regular players, who would have to win more and more matches to notice change in the rank. Im betting some players already have few thousand games on this season as well. To change win percentage from say, 50, theyd have to win at least 100 games to notice a difference

Which is why people are pushing for some form of consistently reliable measure instead of a win/loss ratio vs all of your opponents' win/loss ratios, particularly 2v2 and 3v3.

At the moment, you get to a maximum win/loss ratio, then stagnate as the system pushes you towards a 50% ratio. As long as you don't lose to people below you, the ranking won't change past that point.

If you start consistently winning 6-7/10 matches against the same or higher rank, you're trending towards a 60% win/loss ratio again and will likely increase in rank.

Think of a loss to lesser opposition as 2 wins against same or higher competition to offset the effect.

[Mister Robotto]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Noidenous:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Meelis13:

But how come? Troughout my RL experience, i do have 51 percent win rate in overall- and i do mean overall, including casual & season 1 matches. I have well over 2000 games on record. So if rank system is indeed based on percentage of wins, it is unfair towards regular players, who would have to win more and more matches to notice change in the rank. Im betting some players already have few thousand games on this season as well. To change win percentage from say, 50, theyd have to win at least 100 games to notice a difference

Which is why people are pushing for some form of consistently reliable measure instead of a win/loss ratio vs all of your opponents' win/loss ratios, particularly 2v2 and 3v3.

At the moment, you get to a maximum win/loss ratio, then stagnate as the system pushes you towards a 50% ratio. As long as you don't lose to people below you, the ranking won't change past that point.

If you start consistently winning 6-7/10 matches against the same or higher rank, you're trending towards a 60% win/loss ratio again and will likely increase in rank.

Think of a loss to lesser opposition as 2 wins against same or higher competition to offset the effect.

So when you win/loss ratio is too high, like 52~53%, it finds the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ teammates available so that you can get wrecked not matter how you play.

It's a glass ceiling made for protection of the "good" players.
I'm done with this ♥♥♥♥.
Worst developpers ever seen. They have NEVER commented on matchmaking issues. Because there is a problem and they won't acknowledge it and it suits their interest.

Psyonix, good luck keeping players with the upcoming games.

[Fiddle Gastro]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Tetsuwan Atom:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Noidenous:

Which is why people are pushing for some form of consistently reliable measure instead of a win/loss ratio vs all of your opponents' win/loss ratios, particularly 2v2 and 3v3.

At the moment, you get to a maximum win/loss ratio, then stagnate as the system pushes you towards a 50% ratio. As long as you don't lose to people below you, the ranking won't change past that point.

If you start consistently winning 6-7/10 matches against the same or higher rank, you're trending towards a 60% win/loss ratio again and will likely increase in rank.

Think of a loss to lesser opposition as 2 wins against same or higher competition to offset the effect.

So when you win/loss ratio is too high, like 52~53%, it finds the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ teammates available so that you can get wrecked not matter how you play.

It's a glass ceiling made for protection of the "good" players.
I'm done with this ♥♥♥♥.
Worst developpers ever seen. They have NEVER commented on matchmaking issues. Because there is a problem and they won't acknowledge it and it suits their interest.

Psyonix, good luck keeping players with the upcoming games.

Not something to stop playing the game over, but I do wish they'd reset all the rankings so everyone has to start from 0 MMR all over again.

This concept of fast-tracking the higher ranked players makes a mockery of competitive play when there's such skill disparity in the middle tier.

[Mister Robotto]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Noidenous:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Tetsuwan Atom:

So when you win/loss ratio is too high, like 52~53%, it finds the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ teammates available so that you can get wrecked not matter how you play.

It's a glass ceiling made for protection of the "good" players.
I'm done with this ♥♥♥♥.
Worst developpers ever seen. They have NEVER commented on matchmaking issues. Because there is a problem and they won't acknowledge it and it suits their interest.

Psyonix, good luck keeping players with the upcoming games.

Not something to stop playing the game over, but I do wish they'd reset all the rankings so everyone has to start from 0 MMR all over again.

This concept of fast-tracking the higher ranked players makes a mockery of competitive play when there's such skill disparity in the middle tier.

Well, I don't think this is respectfull of people who invested time, money and energy in your product to just watch them struggle and laugh behind your screen.
The MM makes a mockery of their own gameplay. It's a team based game. And they use the resultat of a team effort to qualify individual performance. That is some seriously flawed logic here.

But don't worry, they have just update season 2. They said they listened to the feedback of the community so they included ice cream delivered by Uber to the top 100 players. Flavors are based on their progression.

The best one is : you said you don't feel a sense of progress so we put a cursor when you get your points.
It's like if you complain that you don't understand what you pay with your tax money and their answer is to send you a letter with big bold red numbers of how much tax you pay.

[TommyEV]

For the record a 50% W/L is not high. It's what's expected. More than that is better and less is worse.

[Meelis13]

I agree with both noidenus (on resetting rank & disparity) and tetsuwan. It does seem that whenever you start to do well, you are paired with bad players. Ok, let that be, because everyone can have bad day. But what i wonder is that sometimes you get- at challenger 3 i might add- players who literally cannot hit the ball. And so several matches in a row.
Percentage-rank also creates additional problem: at some point it becomes literally impossible to get better rank, even if you are indeed best of the best. Lets say some good player (not me- i aint bad, but i sure as hell aint that good) gets about 50 percent win rate for first.. 3000 matches. Then he starts winning over and over again- to nullify those 1500 losses, player would have to win 148 500 matches in a row to make it less than 1 percent of value. But ok, lets say that first place percentage is around 75 win percent- even then you'd have to win 4500 matches in a row- and even that would be ridicolous.
I do seriously think that devs should take timeout on developing gimmicks (dont get me wrong, i like that they develop new stuff, just that it seems to be in focus- and this shouldnt be with game in such stage) and focus on core issues fo a bit.
Say what you want about season 1 ranking system (caused too much stress about individual losses & such, blah blah blah), but it had consistency- you played well, you got promoted, you didnt, you didnt get promoted. I ended up in silver 1st season and i have to say, unlike its season 2 equivelant (challenger ranks), it had very few such games where match was total mismatch- simply because players who'se skills didnt fit the rank didnt reach that rank. Simple as that. And it was clear about how many points you won/lost.
Now, however, you do mediocrely well in first 10 matches and you can land on challenger rank with ease, creating serious mismatches and grief on both ends.

[TommyEV]

You know, except the Victory percentage or whatever was more like an example someone brought up and the game does NOT work like that xDDD

[Mister Robotto]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von TommyEV:

For the record a 50% W/L is not high. It's what's expected. More than that is better and less is worse.

That is just stupid.
Why can't we win more than we loose? If I play with players of my own level, why can't I have a winning streak and not get punished for it? Just let me enjoy the game and my progression.

[TommyEV]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Tetsuwan Atom:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von TommyEV:

For the record a 50% W/L is not high. It's what's expected. More than that is better and less is worse.

That is just stupid.
Why can't we win more than we loose? If I play with players of my own level, why can't I have a winning streak and not get punished for it? Just let me enjoy the game and my progression.

If you want to convince yourself that 50% is high go ahead. But 50% means you win as much as you lose, which is the ideal proportion since it means you are supposedly playing rivals that are like you.