[Request] - remove stamina and I FEEL STONGER NOW in AOD!

[v00d00m4n]

This mechanics ruined AOD for many players who enjoyed previous games without this pseudo-realistic rpg-like enraging dumb crap! For 5 games in a row lara could hand on every cliff forever while you keep pressing action button until you stop holding it and the she would fall, but now in 6th game she suddently stoppped to FEEL STRONG on every basic cliff and started to fall like mad and could not bypass basic obstacles that she could in previous games... until she suddenly FEEL STRONGER NOW and level up her stamina out of nowhere to add more inconsistency and annoyance to very poor game design of this game (in addition to dumb things like doing 2 steps before running and jumping and other crap like this).

This mechanics was one the biggest reason AOD was not FUN game previous 5 games was!

There is no reason for this fun ruining crap to remain in remaster! Long before it was even announced a lot of people discussed how AOD could be saved in possible re-release and a lot of people agreed that (besides AOD cant be saved) one the most important things that needs to be done with AOD - is that ♥♥♥♥♥♥ stamina mechanics should be disabled or removed for good! But seems like dev team did not read much of feedback on Steam forums and did not do a lot of most requested fixes.

So for Lara sake, if you reading this, please - DISABLE THIS MECHANIC BY DEFAULT IN NEXT PATCH! Add option to reenable this enraging game ruining mechanics for masochists and AOD purists and nostalgic angry nerds who wants to relive the nightmare AOD was and remember why this game was hated and almost destroyed whole franchise (its unfinished state and cut content that you restored was not main reason of hate, gameplay that deviated a lot from original with addition of tons of unnecessary poorly designed and poorly working RPG-like mechanics and every other HOT NEW GAME mechanics like basic barebones Stealth with dumbest AI, collecting and spending money, talking to other NPCS that could always say just one line like LEAVE ME, IM BUSY, tutorial that did not allow players to move until lara finish talking about next tip, which broke gameflow in very beginning which again did not happen in TR1 tutorial, 2 steps before running and jumping, etc - and especially stamina mechanics - that was the main reason game caused people, and most of this was not fixed in remaster despite high hopes of people!) ! But majoriy of gamers will be thankful if they never hear again I FEEL STONGER NOW and will never see stamina bar in this game and could finally play it more like they did in previous 5 games!

So please, do what needs to be done - remove it! If there are some game breaking places where lara can go before she would FEEL STONGER NOW to bypass this area by climbing, add some basic condition check for finishing required areas or tasks and just let lara stop before going to this ares and make a new AI trained (on original voice) voice line like - "i need to finish other business before going there", instead of staming path blocking, or do a more complex redesign of such questest to allow them to be finished in non linear fashion, it would be much better than using this crap mechanics to lock out some areas. im not 100% sure there was anything like this because i cant remember this clearly, but im doing some forward thinking about possible issues after disabling these mechanics globally, and its not such hard thing to fix this if you have source code and toolsets to edit game scripts and mask such places with some smarted tricks than making lara DONT FEEL STRONG ENOUGH!

This game is cursed by this mechanics, this video perfectly illustrates it:

https://www.reddit.com/r/TombRaider/s/rZnkVpjl7m

[dprog1995]

I don't think they can. Because this is a REMASTER not a REMAKE.

[v00d00m4n]

dprog1995 eredeti hozzászólása:

I don't think they can. Because this is a REMASTER not a REMAKE.

Remaster is not just a texture uspcale! Classic remaster example is Lucas's edits of Star Wars - he changed actors, changed scenes, changed dialog lines, and Han Solo did not shoot first! Damn, even Jabba Hut was edited from original cut where he was human, to be some fat worm, and then he was edited again and was replaced with some CGI. Thats just basic example of how remaster is not just change of resolution, it can edit and alter anything. Remake on other other hand is not altering of original, but a recreation of everything from scratch.
I dont ask to recreate everything, i ask to change few lines of code to turn crappy gameplay feature off, and then change dozen more if it breaks something in few places, nothing outside of scope of regular remastering job (for example recent The Thing remaster changed scripting of human turning to The thing and made it less predictable as it was originally planned but was not properly.
They already changed couple of gameplay things in remaster like removed annoying 2 step before run and jump. Staming should have been removed too.

[dprog1995]

That feature is tied to gameplay. And I think having the sprint jump ability from the start can ruin some levels because levels were designed with the "I need to get stronger" mechanic.

And Lara's jump gets higher and higher the more she gets stronger so having her fully strong from the start can result in platforming sections at the beginning of the game getting broken.

[Groen90]

I also agree that a remaster shouldn't touch core gameplay mechanic, even if some people might find them annoying. Personally I don't think the stamina thing is that big of a deal, certainly not big enough to write angry walls of text about it at least.

[v00d00m4n]

dprog1995 eredeti hozzászólása:

That feature is tied to gameplay. And I think having the sprint jump ability from the start can ruin some levels because levels were designed with the "I need to get stronger" mechanic.

And Lara's jump gets higher and higher the more she gets stronger so having her fully strong from the start can result in platforming sections at the beginning of the game getting broken.

Did you even read my 1st post from start till end where i explained how those ties can be untied and how broken places can be fixed? You know, it was the part where i mentioned words "forward thinking". Some basic script rework of such places and you can limit area access other ways around, or you can do even more crazy thing like actually making proper redesign of such areas to improve overall gameplay expirience with better game design. This is what was expected for AOD remaster, not just some basic texture upscale and restoration of couple areas and things with total downgrade of graphics and removal of wet surfaces with reflections, dof and other things that was in original...
AOD remaster really feels like lazy downgrade, and not the attempt to save game we all hoped for. Not enough effort that should have been done. With current state of AOD demaster its better to be completely removed from package than exist with all the old problems everyone hated this game for... including the I FEEL STRONGER major game design problem!

[chakkman]

v00d00m4n eredeti hozzászólása:

dprog1995 eredeti hozzászólása:

I don't think they can. Because this is a REMASTER not a REMAKE.

Remaster is not just a texture uspcale! Classic remaster example is Lucas's edits of Star Wars - he changed actors, changed scenes, changed dialog lines, and Han Solo did not shoot first! Damn, even Jabba Hut was editet from original cut where he was human, to be some fat worm, and then he was edited again and was replaced with some CGI. T

If they did stuff like that to the Tomb Raiders, then I would have never bought them.

A remaster should preserve the original gameplay and content, otherwise it should be called a remake, as has been pointed out to you already. Mr. "I complain about everything now".

[aeglosistarion]

The only reason these remasters make any financial sense is that they keep a tight lid on the scope of the project, which keeps costs down and lets them turn a profit even with the comparatively low sales numbers you typically get with this kind of product.

Any major fixes would require a ton of QA testing to make sure whatever you fixed didn't break anything else, and that in itself might be enough to ruin the project's financial viability. Especially since it's not a calculable risk - once you start rooting around in the code you cannot be sure how much work you're adding for yourself, and how long it's going to take. Even if you revert all the changes and abandon the attempt to fix things, you still have to pay people for the time they wasted.

That is why these remasters are made with lightest of touches - no changes beyond the surface level if they can help it. Why fix bugs if you can give people achievements for finding them and sell it as a "commitment to preservation"?

All jabs aside, the mission statement for these was always "The same games, just spruced up a little and running on modern systems." For the first three games, that was less controversial since they were all fine as they were - but unfortunately it's still the same deal with these games, some of which really could have used more work.

But hey, AoD running on current-gen consoles - that's something. Not sure what exactly, but it's definitely something.

[dprog1995]

Remasters have much lower budget and development time compared to remakes. So, the feature you are asking is beyond this project's scope.

[v00d00m4n]

Groen90 eredeti hozzászólása:

I also agree that a remaster shouldn't touch core gameplay mechanic, even if some people might find them annoying. Personally I don't think the stamina thing is that big of a deal, certainly not big enough to write angry walls of text about it at least.

Remasters of games with good game design should not fix what was not broken, so in case of TR4 and 5 remasters gameplay does not need alteration. However AOD is whole different case, it a ♥♥♥♥♥♥ game because of dumb design decisions that ruined its core gameplay mechanics and was the reason this game was hated so much when it was released, so to make this game at least somewhat enjoyable its core mechanics must be altered in remaster! Yet again whole stamina design was a core gameplay breaking mechanics that contradicted everything people knew and loved about mechanics of TR1-5, you can call this feature alone a TR epirience breaking machanics, because in game of series where you can easily and freely climb everywhere you wanted, suddenly out of nowhere in next gen sequel for PS2- you cant anymore! And most of gamers reacted to this in early 2000 with - WTF?

Imagine if in GTA6 you would not be able to steal cars anymore and instead would need to buy them! This would break fundamental core mechanics we knew from GTA 1 up to GTA 5, it will break whole GTA expirience because GTA literally means CAR STEALING!
And Tomb Raider is all about climbing, but climbing is fundamentally limited and broken by stamina mechanics in AOD so this thing alone does not make this game a Tomb Raider game, like lack of car stealing would make GTA a not GTA anymore!
Need more examples? Imagine a Quake , but you have to reload manually and you can only reload 1 bullet at time until you feel stronger now and can reload 2 bullets? This would break whole shooting mechanics of QUAKE we knew! This is again same thing what stamina did to AOD and gameplay of Tomb Raider!

One more example - imagine a MARIO game, but Mario now has stamina that runs out quickly and as lower it as, the lower Mario jumps until he cant jump at all and have to wait for stamina to slowly restore! That would be totally broken Mario where you would stuck after couple of pipes and could not reach a lot of places until they are on a ground! This is almost same thing as what stamina did to AOD!

This was the biggest mistake of this game, and remaster should have fixed it to make it consistent with previous games and actually feel like real TR6 and not some Point and Click walking-talking adventure spin-off game with Lara Croft that you cant even call a TR6!

So since they include this abomination with true TRs - 4 and 5, they should have tried to make it all consistent and should have fixed this fundamental game design issue and all the other issues that would surface without those mechanics and should have redesigned scripts and some places of some areas to make AOD a true tomb raider game instead of pile of stinky crap it was! They should have saved this game from miserable state and unleashed its potential... but instead they just let us remember and let new players understand why this game was such a failure and caused massive rage quits and burried franchise for many years.

Yet with the power of patches and power of admitting mistakes they can still save this game and make it at least somewhat enjoyable by removing stamina.

And like i said before (why people are always so blind or cant keep details like that in mind before they rush to reply?) - there should be added an option for masochists and AOD purists (which is exactly who you are, purist of ♥♥♥♥♥♥ game that thinks that it should remain same crap it was before instead of getting actually improved in game design department) that would reenable this old bad mechanics to let those people relieve this nightmare as it was almost 25 years ago!

But this is an option for those who wants original BAD epxirience, while whole purpose of remaster is IMPROVMENT, so it should not be default option and by default this BAD gameplay should be improved in this remaster, otherwise there is no point in this remaster, people will rage quit this game again and will call it a crap again and refund it and it would be just a waste of effort (cant say that effort was big in case of AOD, because they even managed to downgrade original graphics by removing all the fancy graphical effects and making it more flat, less detailed and more like PS1 game, that also still have bad gameplay that was not fixed, except for run jumps that got removed 2 steps delay, which is already alteration of gameplay, but not big enough to fix whole game) and opportunity to make somewhat good game out of AOD and save it.

[Randy Lahey]

Give it a few months and maybe a modder will do something. There are tons available for the first trilogy

[v00d00m4n]

Randy Lahey eredeti hozzászólása:

Give it a few months and maybe a modder will do something. There are tons available for the first trilogy

Modders still dont have AOD sources and tools to do fundamental edits to its gameplay and to redesign scripts and areas, and devs of remaster dont share editors and source code with us, so i doubt anyone but official devs would be capable to remove this crap mechanics and alterate and fix few areas that limits access to area for lover that require stamina levels. So only devs can easily fix it.

[Groen90]

i ain't reading all that
i'm happy for u tho
or sorry that happened

[cowboy rider]

Not reading all that either, but the stamina bar and movement/strength upgrades with their voice lines do have a purpose; Lara is still weakened from the end of TR4, having not raided a tomb since her near death experience + shenanigans with the tribe she was saved by and AoD is a journey forced upon her where she'll become her usual strong self.

Not that it makes "I FEEL STRONGER NOW" any less silly but it is what it is. There was a scarab amulet that (most likely) would've given her the strength to proceed as she continues on her adventure, but we can only wonder and dream. A shame they didn't restore that.

[v00d00m4n]

Groen90 eredeti hozzászólása:

i ain't reading all that
i'm happy for u tho
or sorry that happened

You don't need to tell everyone you are challenged and incapable of processing more than 3 lines of text, just leave this thread in silence if you have nothing else to say about subject of discussion.

[Cú/Moon]

You have no idea how game design works and how impossible it is to implement this. you've been told by others it's been tied into the game's level design they cant remove it without remaking the entire game not remastering.
Reborninshadow who created the restoration project has talked on how it's impossible to remove and I suggest you go look up his statements on it rather than rant on for paragraphs without actually employing critical thinking.