Why did facepunch add Projectile Invalid detection?

[Rugbo]

Why is this the only game where projectile invalid or projectile lifetime exist. I HATE IT as well as 99% of the community, imagine your rushing a ak guy with a spas and because he shot you first and then you shoot but you die from his bullet that makes your pellets not do ♥♥♥♥ and you leave him with 3.6hp or when someone pushes a ladder so you shoot them and for some dumb ♥♥♥♥ reason 3 bullets are invalid so too bad you lose 3 C4 a raid and ak sets <3 lovely game with lovely features. remove this ♥♥♥♥

[No_Quarter]

All online games have it, you just don't see it.

99.9% of "projectile invalid" happen when you die before you shot your bullets. There's always desync in online games and you need to understand that what you see is not 100% what's happening. Other 0.1 is likely due to positional desync causing server to detect that shot wasn't possible.

Feature cannot be removed as it's a part of every online pvp video game ever. Peeker's advantage exists and it's why "chad gameplay" gives you advantage - you are not a chad, you just dumb pushing everything because you get 50-150ms of advantage when you do that.

[VikingDork]

Pretty sure this has been a thing since the game came out.

[𐂃𐂃𐂃]

It`s because of lag switching, delaying packet, packet replay and another 10 similar methods to prevent hits, teleport, delay damage etc. FPS games started adding this about 10 years ago.There was even hardware being sold like the foot pedal lag switch just like we have DMA now... If the server receives your shot late even by milliseconds, it decides the bullet is too old and ignores it. The biggest problem is that Rust uses tick rate which is up to nearly 70% slower than competitive shooters. As No_Quarter mentioned player who peeks first has an advantage so unless you are bleeding out healing at lets say 40 hp isn`t the best choice....Also, if your packet loss is over 15%, you may want to avoid PvP altogether. They won`t be changing anything.

[No_Quarter]

Originally posted by 𐂃𐂃𐂃:

As No_Quarter mentioned player who peeks first has an advantage so unless you are bleeding out healing at lets say 40 hp isn`t the best choice....Also, if your packet loss is over 15%, you may want to avoid PvP altogether. They won`t be changing anything.

the worse your internet the better "chad" gameplay will be, at 100 ping you just basically have to push everything even at 1hp because that's your only chance - to beat someone at peeker's advantage.
If they peek into you, then you are long dead before your client sees them, making all your projectiles invalid. I've had 17 invalid projectiles on a guy, full spray with Custom SMG, but I had a spiky ping and he peeked so in reality - I didn't even fire a bullet, I got killed standing.

I understand the frustration, I get frustrated too when I get killed and I see guy was at 10hp and I had invalid projectiles after. But that happens in every game, in CS2 you have that even at 50 ping - you shoot at the guy and hit him 5+ times but you die.

Even on LAN there is minimal latency which can be seen in demos/replays, you watch someone's pov and it looks like they've been prefired af by someone, while in reality from other pov guy had a decent peek and full eyes on him.

But it is the most fair way of doing things in fast paced games. In some slower games like World of Tanks all movement is server side, even your tank. It feels a bit sluggish but it's more fair in that sense. So a tradeoff.

[𐂃𐂃𐂃]

Originally posted by No_Quarter:

But it is the most fair way of doing things in fast paced games

There is something very wrong with their implementation, or it’s too strict for no reason, considering the amount of cheating that trumps lag exploiting.

I don’t have any noticeable invalids while playing, let’s say, CS:GO.
Also being 1600 km from the nearest active servers which also happens to be Facepunch official servers hosted on cheap OVH doesn`t really help the problem.

But forget about me... what about all those YouTubers playing on the latest hardware, with gigabit connections, and located in the heart of Europe or the UK? And if they’re in the US, they’re still relatively close to the servers. So why do they experience rubberbanding and invalids in every single video? And what about that ridiculous tick rate?

Clearly, FP is not improving as much as they promise... Why are they so understaffed?

There are lot of question marks and BIG red flags...

FP ~80 or less employee profits ~$30M annually, while CD Projekt with ~1,000 employees made $18.97M in 2024 despite their decline.

Rust Mobile offloaded to Tencent using the PUBG engine? Cheaters will be like the Great flood...it was so bad that in 2024, PUBG banned over 1 million accounts in a week...

[No_Quarter]

Originally posted by 𐂃𐂃𐂃:

Originally posted by No_Quarter:

But it is the most fair way of doing things in fast paced games

There is something very wrong with their implementation, or it’s too strict for no reason, considering the amount of cheating that trumps lag exploiting.

I don’t have any noticeable invalids while playing, let’s say, CS:GO.
Also being 1600 km from the nearest active servers which also happens to be Facepunch official servers hosted on cheap OVH doesn`t really help the problem.

But forget about me... what about all those YouTubers playing on the latest hardware, with gigabit connections, and located in the heart of Europe or the UK? And if they’re in the US, they’re still relatively close to the servers. So why do they experience rubberbanding and invalids in every single video? And what about that ridiculous tick rate?

Clearly, FP is not improving as much as they promise... Why are they so understaffed?

There are lot of question marks and BIG red flags...

FP ~80 or less employee profits ~$30M annually, while CD Projekt with ~1,000 employees made $18.97M in 2024 despite their decline.

Rust Mobile offloaded to Tencent using the PUBG engine? Cheaters will be like the Great flood...it was so bad that in 2024, PUBG banned over 1 million accounts in a week...

You know what's "very wrong" in there? Rust is not only an FPS shooter, it's a very complicated survival game with dozens of systems, building custom bases, electricity, water, farming, industrial, smelting, thousands of items and skins etc...
And it's an OPEN WORLD game.

All that takes a toll on servers by default and it cannot just be fixed, there's a lot more to process in Rust as compared to some arena shooter with 5v5 and nothing else in the game but a pre-determined map that's over 100x smaller than map in Rust.

Devs cannot pull magic out of their asses and make a complicated survival game run as well as simple cowboy shooter with nothing in it but 5 people and 5 guns.
Just because you do not see it happen in CS it doesn't mean it doesn't, you can turn on any stream of a pro match and you'll see it happen in every round.

As for your logic that more devs equals better, that's just false and there are many educated people talking about that problem of adding thousands of devs. Also CDPR is notoriously known to be a terrible place to work at, they have lots of spots rotating because so many people are leaving.

As for streamers experiencing issues, I do not see much of that. Also not every connection with high bandwidth means it's a good connection, you seem to lack quite a bit of understanding of that. You can have 1000mbit connection with packet loss and terrible ping swings. You can also stream with 6mbit connection and cause your internet to lag some packets out causing issues.

Don't come into Rust expecting it runs as smooth as some 128-tick arena shooter, that will never ever happen. It cannot happen, survival games have much more to it. It is not a competitive shooter.

[𐂃𐂃𐂃]

Originally posted by No_Quarter:

As for your logic that more devs equals better...

Saying that fewer devs will perform better than more is a strawman argument. I’m not suggesting an unrealistic flood of developers, just a reasonable increase in staff to improve development speed and quality. My argument is that they can afford it.

Originally posted by No_Quarter:

As for streamers experiencing issues, I do not see much of that.

In literally every single video, they are rubberbanding just like everyone else. Look at Memeio, he releases exploit videos every two weeks. I don`t even need to prove that point and everyone playing Rust knows very well how bad it gets.

All the complaints about Rust crashing and whatnot flood this forum and Reddit daily. I guess you don’t see that 80% of the topics are about that huh?

Ads, fake pop and bases plugins won’t fool people forever. You can see it for yourself even without a Battlemetrics sub...all these fake sessions[ibb.co] with "Time Played 00:00".

As you said, it’s a "complicated open-world game". The sooner they hire more devs and QA, the better. Now this may be a bit of nitpicking, but I’m just a consumer and want the best bang for my buck. I bet you do too xD

[No_Quarter]

Originally posted by 𐂃𐂃𐂃:

, but I’m just a consumer and want the best bang for my buck. I bet you do too xD

more devs does not equal better and I did not say that fewer devs will perform better - you made that up and called me a strawman which is quite toxic. And made you seem to be arguing with your self for some reason....

Developer teams are like music bands, when you find good chemistry then magic can happen. You can scale up to some level but beyond that game just becomes a conveyor belt of streamlined content.
Streamlined content equals CoD or irrelevant games like that, games that are forgotten within 2 months after launch. You want Rust to turn into that?

What you're asking is rather clueless, Rust seems to be delivering big updates every month, it's an ongoing development and as such - it will NEVER EVER have all its issues ironed out. If you want game without noticeable bugs then you go play a video game that doesn't have any updates, and is single player, and is likely 2D and has total of 5 possible inputs - left, right, up, down and shoot.

Cramming more devs in will just water down the product but issues will still be there. Check ANY game that's being developed like that and you will see similarities.

Rust is one of the top played games in the world and has constant influx of players. It's flat out YOUR CHOICE to focus on downsides instead of enjoying one of the best games of our time.
But by all means, it is "best bang for your buck" because it is by far the best game in its genre based on popularity.

I get that issues can be frustrating, but maybe some of us forgot to enjoy video games and are just a tad too empty in the dome so opinions get adopted from content creators who actively hate their own job. As for 80% of topics about crashes, you know that's not a thing, right? Also most crashes are not on devs, it's on you running a 10 year old driver they didn't think anyone would....

As for fake pop, that doesn't really have any effect on Steam numbers, just ingame.

[𐂃𐂃𐂃]

Originally posted by No_Quarter:

made that up and called me a strawman which is quite toxic. And made you seem to be arguing with your self for some reason....

I'm pretty sure I clarified that I was talking about a reasonable increase in developers in response to your argument: "As for your logic that more devs equals better, that's just false." A strawman argument isn’t the same as calling you a strawman… lmao.

Developers are not music bands, especially when it comes to workload and scalability.

I thought we were having a constructive discussion about PID and other aspects that could be improved with better quality. I didn’t expect you to bring in that fanboy attitude, getting defensive, misinterpreting my points, and making it personal.

Anyways, I totally agree with Rugbo as the issue is obvious. I’m out before you start calling me toxic again just for disagreeing haha

[No_Quarter]

Originally posted by 𐂃𐂃𐂃:

Anyways, I totally agree with Rugbo as the issue is obvious. I’m out before you start calling me toxic again just for disagreeing haha

no, you're toxic because you are twisting what I said and then arguing against that xD or even worse what you did at the end there xD

Entire topic is stupid to be honest, "invalid projectile" is a thing in every single online game and it cannot be removed. Games that have it removed result in every 1v1 duel being a death for both users, which is why invalid projectile is a thing for like 2 decades now.

Your argument is just to "do better, add more" which is not really an argument, just a general uninformed point that could theoretically be applied. And is applied by average managers, but instead you should look into who is making good games and how's that developing.

PUBG was at its peak when original creator was in it, now they scaled up and game is doing way worse.

Instead of being an average manager and just asking more, maybe look into a particular industry. That said, FP did hire more people recently to expand on certain systems. But what's reasonable for them and for you seem to be rather different. One is a top 10 played game in the world.....

Not saying all is good, just saying your logic is lacking and there's nothing really supporting it.

Cheers

[Rugbo]

Gia dayum yall making whole ass emails over here whilst i decided to play another terrible game, yall gotta chill

[Rugbo]

Wellp thx for the info ig guys gotta build a house next to the facepunch hq to have less ms