Feels like the puzzles took a huge nosedive from the first game

[TerribleLiar]

At least six different times I was stuck and didn't know where to go, so I had to use a guide. One time I did not see the tiny little wall switch that's in the lower left quadrant. Without one of those switches, you can't progress the game. The circular and square switches are clearly visible compared to the other one. The first game gradually introduced you to wall switches and never introduced one without making it obvious, thereby keeping you on the lookout in the future for that type of switch.

Then in the crystal mines I did not see that tiny portion of a weight switch that's slightly visible on the other side of the crevice. Without seeing that, you can't progress in the dungeon.

And on the lowest level of the mines, where it says "power me up," I did try using spark, but it didn't do anything, because I made the logical conclusion to shoot the thing that is supposed to shoot, not directly at the sign/the receiver.

And in a puzzle spanning the cemetery, archives, and lexiconary, I missed a few parts of it. Scroll, rock, sword. I was really expected me to think of rock paper scissors? I'll admit it's a bit clever, but there is no hint anywhere referencing the game. It did not occur to me at any time that that is what it wanted. I simply thought that it didn't like my items.

And then the path of the eagle puzzle, how does that make any sense at all? I'm supposed to blindly try jumping off a two story drop that if it's not the solution, I suffer broken legs and have to reload? I hate reloading in this game, because it takes so damn long for some reason. There's no indication or reason why I should follow the path the very lowest part makes.

Then on the return from there, why would I look down and see the clean tiles? There should have been some hint as to cleanliness or something.

Then the pyramid, what logic is it to shoot an orb at a door that has no markings indicating that you should shoot it? If there was some kind of indication, such as a power receptacle connected to the door, I'd be just fine with it, but there isn't. Just a door and some weird logic that I should try shooting the door.

And I won't even go into detail on the buried treasure in the Cemetery and digging up the relic.

In the first game, I found all but a handful of secrets on my own, and I completed the main game no problem and had a blast. This game, I got stuck and annoyed constantly, and the combat has been made much harder. It seems like every new area I encountered an enemy that could 1-shot even my minotaur with 5 armor points. I was really looking forward to this game, but it just can't live up to its predecessor. While I did beat it and ultimately had fun, it did not give me the satisfaction the first one did with its clever puzzles. Instead, I feel like this one used adventure game level logic. Maybe part of the problem is the open world aspect. Sometimes you don't know if you're "supposed" to be there yet, whereas in the first one, the tools to solutions were at least on the same level as the puzzle. Also, even with the hub, backtracking is a bother and also detracted from the game for me.

[Thaxlsyssilyaan]

Originally posted by TerribleLiar:

And then the path of the eagle puzzle, how does that make any sense at all? I'm supposed to blindly try jumping off a two story drop that if it's not the solution, I suffer broken legs and have to reload? I hate reloading in this game, because it takes so damn long for some reason. There's no indication or reason why I should follow the path the very lowest part makes.

Then on the return from there, why would I look down and see the clean tiles? There should have been some hint as to cleanliness or something.

Both part took me less than 5 minutes, it wasn't that hard. You just have to not try trial and error and seek any logical way to solve it.

Way of the eagle: Eagle fly high in the sky, so you are supposed to "walk" high. (2 tile high)
Disguised path (or somethings like this): use mouselook to see anythings out of ordinary...

[My god, not another name.]

Im almost done with the game, I'm in the castle library and I'm just shaking my head with a stupid look. That puzzle with the switches is so horribly designed I just want to quit but I'm so close to finishing the game.

I totally agree with the op. I think I'm far enough into the game to formulate a educated opinion about the puzzles in this game. There seem to be two variety.

The first kind are like the puzzles from LoG that we know and love. As the OP stated, those kinda where slowly introduced to us over the course of the game which is sheer brilliance from a game design perspective. (Much like Portal introduced the concept of their portal gun and slowly built up it's puzzles.) In LoG2 we're familiar with those puzzle mechanics from LoG so all we require is a little trial and error and some clever thinking to solve these types of puzzles in LoG2.

The second kind are damned close to impossible to figure out. Runemaster's Trial, Serpent Staff, Cemetary Entrance and the list goes on and on. These puzzles remind my of the trick Bilbo did to Golum. What have I got in my pocket? WTF?! Poor Golum. These puzzles/riddle hybrids almost seem to have no logic behind them and for people it's a binary experience. You either get it or you dont. There's no inbetween as there is really no frame of reference to work from.

Never in a million years would I have thought to shoot the door with the staff. And to add insult to injury, never in a million years would I have figured out the runemaster puzzles or the cemeteary entrance. Consider this scenario. Someones plays the game...without a mage. The though of picking up or holding onto spell scrolls doesn't even concern them. Then they get to the runemaster puzzle and are bamboozled. Also, what's a rune? I thought I was drawing arcane symbols like in DnD. It'd make a little more sense if instead of a wizard the class was called...a runemaster or runecaster or something having to do with runes. Grr...

For LoG3, I hope the devs stick with LoG and Portal like puzzle design, ie:

Introduce a simple puzzle mechanic(s), build on it(them) to create more complex puzzles.

Riddles are a poor excuse for game design. Just ask Golum, he'll tell you.

[Nivrax]

I had similar issues - Pyramid, Cementary entrance and Rock/Scroll/Sword puzzle. The last one, I admit defeat, it was good puzzle and I just didn't 'get' it. The two others were... less than helpful with hints.

Pyramid have issue with 'key' being completely out of the way in random place. There is few places where treasure is replaced with paper having hints where it's been moved/buried. Similarly, I expected letter to have hints regarding key. Instead it serves no purpose whatsoever, unlike every other you find. There is no markings on the door, and there is nothing that mention Pyramid where you get staff, I just assumed it's 'poison inflicting wand' or some other crap.

Cementary, I had story with me, I understood concept. But I still had to google because I was misguided by the way you input answer. I expected the last step to be moving twice North so I tried to make last step go from South, to center, to North. If that puzzle was presented in different way, keypad-like or something, it would make more sense, having middle position was not practical.

In first case, I just felt stupid because I missed solution. In two others, I just though 'that's it? whatever'.

Beside those two though, I felt most puzzles were great. I enjoyed variety (beside half being 'find hidden button' that is) and them being vague enough to give the rewarding feeling of actually solving them yet clear enough that you can find answer. I'd say they could make Runemaster one bit easier by just having damn journal that would record magic spells, and along them notes, puzzles, letters, recipes and similar paper stuff. It just seems natural to me that party would keep a book where they would place and catalogue notes they found instead of having them clutter bajilion slots in inventory/bags.

Oh, and for Eagle puzzle? Finding first step of hidden bridge cost me few broken bones but then it just clicked, and other way around I knew my way since I already noticed strange pattern on floor.

[palladin9479]

Only the cemetery puzzle caught me and that was just in how you input the directions. The serpent staff was super easy as it's fairly logical since the staff tells you what it is and the statue lets you know there are other snakes.

I mean you can't blame them for not putting a fairy in the game that goes around saying "looky here!!!" or some pop up box that carefully explains the puzzle. This is LoG, DMII didn't have long explanations for each of it's puzzles, I spent many hours lost trying to figure that stuff out.

[Deadhead]

It really sounds like a lot of people just dont have patience for these puzzles. Some of these puzzles that you all are talking about are breaths of fresh air. I for one welcome getting stumped at certain points, it makes it much more rewarding when you finally figure it out. Just like old school games.

[monoculo_jim]

I love each and every puzzle in the game, both the 'logical' and the think outside the box varieties.

In fact I think this game as a whole is a masterpiece, the way everything fits together, its fairly open ended nature, it could have been a big mess but it's really, really not. I sincerely hope there's more like this coming.

[Scrubsy]

This game was really good but I think the puzzles were to confusing like the tetris one in the sewers i had no idea and thats what is fun about it getting stuck on a puzzle and just figuring it out in somesort of crazy fashion its what brings the game together.

The combat is great to and i have played this a while but i found that just some of the races and classes were to overpowered I never really used the other classes still it's a good game and you should explore it too the darkest depths

[fanfanlatulipe gerard philippes]

the creation of maps and very well done but you have avowed that his does not do as easily as one would like to believe because the constrution of castles was not easy creating more teleporters a place to go from one level to another as I have created qu'elque map but I have not found the past means the right to the left I do not know how to do this if anyone know the pleasure he'd me all my dissent map are visible on my profile and if people are offered the idea to me I thank you all prenneur

[CalvinHobbes]

Glad I'm not the only one that is very disappointed in the quality of the puzzles in LoG2. It's been a long time since I completed the first LoG and I was wondering if I was imaging how much less enjoyable the puzzles are in the sequel.

I finished the first LoG without having to consult a walkthrough. At times I was stuck at puzzles for quite a while, but because the puzzles had logical solutions I enjoyed getting stuck and finally having that "aha" moment.

I'm well under halfway through LoG2 and I've had to consult a walkthrough/videos several times. When I find the solution to the part I'm stuck on in LoG2, it's never a well designed puzzle. Unfortunately, this builds on itself, now that I know the puzzles are poorly designed I don't want to spend much time on them.

Worse than that, it makes me want to quit playing the game.

[Ǵ̶͓̂͑lí̴̤̀̄́tcĥ̸]

Originally posted by TerribleLiar:

And on the lowest level of the mines, where it says "power me up," I did try using spark, but it didn't do anything, because I made the logical conclusion to shoot the thing that is supposed to shoot, not directly at the sign/the receiver.

I fail to see the logic here. Why would you think shooting spark at the thing that is supposed to shoot spark at the receiver is more logical than the blatantly obvious fact that you are replacing the spark shooter yourself? Your logic added an unnecessary and illogical step - obviously the receiver is what needed to be charged with spark, not the shooter, considering the shooter's job is to charge the receiver. O.O That's like having a dead battery in one hand, a plug in the other hand, and a dead cell phone on the table in front of you, and you need the cell phone immediately - and your logic says you should plug the battery in, then stick it in the cell phone, instead of just plugging the cell phone in directly and ignoring the battery completely.

Path of the eagle was obvious as well, given that eagles fly.

Stone, Scroll and Sword makes perfect sense considering the setting.

Etc. etc. The hints were slightly obscure but all they took was some lateral thinking and some deduction. Like real riddles, for example: What walks on 4 limbs in the morning, 2 at noon, 3 in the eve (not saying this is in the game, just illustrating lateral thinking using this riddle as an example since damn near everyone has heard this riddle) - riddles like that make almost no sense without lateral thinking; that you are supposed to think of a human crawling, walking on both feet, then with a cane (crawls on 4 limbs, walks on 2 limbs, walks on 3 limbs including the cane, with "morning, noon and eve" representing lifecycle rather than literal day/night cycle, making the answer "Human") would dumbfound anyone not familiar with this train of thought. But once you realize it, it makes sense, and you usually feel stupid that you didn't think of it.

[fanfanlatulipe gerard philippes]

many people not too keen on the second log 2 pane and true that it would predict a book of rune order not to unnecessarily filling Inventory
including for nourishment and repeated objects

[Saboth]

I understand some people love Grimrock for the puzzles mostly, but I like RPGs for exploration/combat and leveling up. Puzzles are probably my least favorite aspect, and it's been that way since the old Myst/Eye of the Beholder days. A few puzzles I can tolerate, but damn if Grimrock 2 doesn't saddle you with a puzzle, and you walk into the next room and there is another puzzle, then another. It really slows the game down and makes it frustrating. I'm about to finish the game, but it's not because I've been having a blast, but more out of "well, I got this far, I might as well finish it". I'm not even bothering with solving puzzles any more, I've had my fill. Just getting on the net and finding the fastest solution. If this game had 50% fewer puzzles and some of them were a bit clearer, I think I would have loved it.

[Raszlo]

Well, for me the runemaster puzzle was so obvious, that I wouldn't even think that someone could have a problem with it ;) The eagle puzzle also had better strategy than trial and error - putting stones/other items on the neighboring tiles to trigger the field and then you could see the pattern overlaps with the route below. I didn't understand the return pattern origin, yet the stones saved my bones :P

The cemetery puzzle though... OMG, this one really pissed me off :P Even after googling the answer I still don't get it - more stone pushing than actions described in the letter.

[Liro Raériyo]

The puzzles i remember from playing!

The Eagles path puzzle sure got me at first, it took me a whole ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ two hours to figure it out, but thats what made it so good, the second i figured out what to do i felt so ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ awesome and amazing.

The serpent staff made 100% sense... sort of, the second i saw it my first and immediate reaction was "oh ♥♥♥♥ i bet i can use this to open the pyramid" so i slung it in the whole beside the door and!!!! nothing happend, so i thought about it and thought "wait these statues have four serpents each... do i need three more?" but eventually realized no other serpent related items besides the bracers existed so i went back to see if i missed something, to which i then immediately fired it at the door, THAT part was never explained to be certain.

Now heres something that did get me badly though, alot of the information you can obtain is hidden in the... well gossip stone like things, but the thing is i never once clicked on them, they freaked me the ♥♥♥♥ out, believe me when i say that i was scratching my head for almost a week until i accidentally clicked on just one of them, as soon as i did that i backtracked and clicked on every, last, one. These things arent even a puzzle but because they rubbed me the wrong way the first time i encountered them i decided it would be in my best interest to not get near them whenever possible, they contain information that only they possess, ♥♥♥♥ the pyramid puzzle ♥♥♥♥, THAT is the biggest and most obscure thing that literally would have ♥♥♥♥♥♥ me over if i didn't have an exploration checklist of ♥♥♥♥ you do when stuck before googling it.
Granted.. googling it would have just TOLD me they tell you ♥♥♥♥, which i could have just stoped their, but thats beside the point, i didnt get defeated by the spirit of the game!


TL:DR

Thinking about it now, in the short of it every puzzle after some thinking it through was something that i eventually solved either from trying everything i can do(sensible or not) or it just clicked in my head, it was the gossip stones that nearly conqured me and made me look it up, and they aren't even a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ puzzle.

[SirRantsAlot]

That is as far as i can say the clear minus beside the fact that you cannot get a refund from Steam as it is normal even for Apple these days. Therefor really bad developers will be unneccesarily protected.
I am tired of watching every single wall for nearly invisible switches and ending up using google/youtube. That is not gaming at all.
The problem with most puzzles is that it just logically for those who invent them. Everybody thinks different and if a game just causes headdache and frustration you should at least have a chance to get your money back.
Me i will never ever buy anything by Almost Human and i cannot recommend their games to others at all.