Beginner tips?

[Swimfan]

I'm currently on my first playthrough of Grimrock 1 and enjoying it a lot (although I might have f*** up my level-ups way too hard and now play very un-optimised).

That being said I play through GR1 to play GR2 eventually (this game was always on my radar). Heard that the second game is WAY harder tho.

Can you guys give me any tips (as someone coming from GR1) without too many spoilers to avoid beginner mistakes?

[Pixel Peeper]

I don't remember the difficulty in Grimrock I, but Grimrock II is very forgiving. I usually play with two characters even though the experience isn't split (strongly discouraging smaller parties), and it's somewhat hard but still very much doable.

A varied party is preferable due to the availability of equipment. You'll probably want at least one Strength-based Minotaur so you can take advantage of skulls (and Minotaur throwers are pretty OP). A character with the Alchemy skill makes a huge difference too. Avoid Firearms, they're unbelievably weak.

There are golden locks that open doors with (usually) strong equipment in them. There are 17 golden locks and 11 golden keys so you have to make a few choices, but it's easy enough to pick 6 locks that you don't care about. Many of them are either awful or not useful for your particular party composition.

Really there isn't all that much to it, a little common sense will get you a long way.

[RPG only]

Additonal tips:
1. Explore the surface (exept the first two areas) before you enter any dungeon.
2. Try to learn alchemie early in the game and collect all the increds.
3. Once you enter a dungeon (which ever) search the walls for hidden buttons. Some of them will reveal scrolls to solve puzzles.
4. Avoid to attack an opponent strait, better dodge, hit & dodge. Try the 2x2 tile strtegy: attack from the side, hit, dodge and so on. It takes a little practice but most of the time you're faster.
5. if you explore the sewers, avoid the south area with the pressure plate (boss fight)
6.If you can't solve a puzzle, keep it up for later. There is always a work-around.
7. To solve the game you need powergems. There are 24 in the game. What to
do with them you have to figure out on your own...
8. If you have one or two mages in your party try to level up concentration first (light spell) and then the other elemental skills.

Sorry for the spoilers but if you play this game for more than 2.300 hours it's really hard not to do so.

Good luck / Viel Glück für's erste Mal ....

[Pixel Peeper]

Just to save OP some pointless searching... tip 7 is wrong: there are 20, not 24.

[Swimfan]

Wow! Thanks :-)

I take your tips to heart - it's really good to know (f.e.) that ranged weapons (like bows) are weak because my rogue right now in BR1 (second row) uses one ... I was really stupid, didn't read the skilltree and realised that Lv 12 in Assasination would make him able to attack from the back -_-" That's what I mean with my build is kind of screwed ... I dumped stats in different trees which in RPGs I'd normally never do (and which is almost always a mistake).

Alchemy is a great tip! My mage in BR1 is brewing potions like crazy.

@RPG only:
What do you mean with tip 4? Isn't combat movement like in BR1? (Attack and try to bait in a circle? Made the first Ogre easy as hell because he only became dangerous if you moved faster ... if you let him come, he was CAAAAAKE).

[RPG only]

Originally posted by Pixel Peeper:

Just to save OP some pointless searching... tip 7 is wrong: there are 20, not 24.

You're right. My mistake

[RPG only]

Originally posted by Swimfan:

Wow! Thanks :-)
@RPG only:
What do you mean with tip 4? Isn't combat movement like in BR1? (Attack and try to bait in a circle? Made the first Ogre easy as hell because he only became dangerous if you moved faster ... if you let him come, he was CAAAAAKE).

It's the same in other words.

[Swimfan]

Originally posted by RPG only:

Originally posted by Swimfan:

Wow! Thanks :-)
@RPG only:
What do you mean with tip 4? Isn't combat movement like in BR1? (Attack and try to bait in a circle? Made the first Ogre easy as hell because he only became dangerous if you moved faster ... if you let him come, he was CAAAAAKE).

It's the same in other words.

Ok good :-) Because I actually grew to like this "combat dance".

[ChaosLord316]

I've heard it referred to as "square-dancing" a couple times.

As for party building, or at least leveling, I think LoG2 is a bit more up-front and easier to understand than LoG1. The way your champs level up in LoG2 is very different than LoG1. Instead of the granular points system, you simply get 1 Skill Point per level. You can expect about 10-15 Skill Points per champ throughout the game, which equates to about 2-3 maxed skills per champion. So for example, you could plan on Heavy Weapons, Armor, and Accuracy on a champ, or Fire Magic, Air Magic, and Concentration.

There are a couple "hidden" things that the game doesn't tell you. The first is that some of the races get bonuses from certain foods. The bonus is simply +1 to a random attribute (Strength, Vitality, etc.) after a certain amount of the specific food is eaten by the specific race. The amount of food needed scales up per stat. I think 3 foods need to be eaten for the first point, then 4, then 5, etc., and since the foods are limited, this really only equates to about 2-3 stat points per type of food. There are better ways to gain Attribute points in LoG2.

Relating to the above, the "randomness" of the stats gained from the food bonuses, as well as the Ratling's Mutation trait, is predetermined as soon as you create your party and start the game. So don't bother loading and rerolling a single random point gain because you wanted Willpower instead of Strength.

Another hidden stat thing the game doesn't tell you, is that most weapons do damage based on an Attribute, usually Strength or Dexterity (the game actually does tell you that part). What the game doesn't tell you is that Firearm damage does not scale with any stat. This, combined with a couple other issues Firearms have, makes Firearms fall short. But, they're fun, and there's some pretty cool Firearms in the game.

My number one tip: have fun.

[Pixel Peeper]

That's all correct. Especially those skill combinations, sadly almost all casters will go for those three skills (assuming the player knows spells in advance). You'll find yourself always putting points in the same skills because some are just way better than others for any given character.

The special foods (eggs for lizardmen, fruit for insectoids, cheese for ratlings) indeed won't usually get you very far. There are only enough eggs in the game for 2 point, enough fruit for 2 points (3 if you have 2+ Insectoid) and enough cheese for 4 points (5 if you have 3+ Ratlings). It's just not a major consideration. When picking races, I'd say you'd miss out if you didn't get one minotaur, otherwise you can pick what you want and that's good.

Firearms in particular are just terrible. Not only do they not scale with any stat, but the Firearms skill doesn't grant +20% weapon damage per skill point like it does for other weapons and for magic, so Firearms don't scale with anything at all. Is there base damage higher to compensate for that (and the fact that they have short range and can jam and ammo can't be recovered)? No. No they don't. They have lower damage ranges than melee weapons. There are only five in the game and two are so weak they're basically unusable. One is potentially semi-strong (though nowhere as strong as a Heavy Weapon user) but it requires very high Firearms skill, weighs 15kg, the ammo is far, far more limited than pellets, and every shot's worth of ammo weighs 1kg. I don't know what the devs were thinking. Would not recommend, even for fun.

Fun. That's indeed the big thing. It's a very nice, charming little game despite its flaws (which are mostly avoidable) and you can definitely have fun with it. I've played through it many times and it's always nice.