Will Sega finally produce a fully original Sonic game in the future?

[Ikagura]

And by fully original I mean no Cyberspace stages taking Generations assets and older game level design, no older areas from previous games like in Forces with Green Hill and Death Egg, not making a bland Mario Galaxy ripoff with NSMB like worlds from Lost World and not an anniversary callback game like Generations.

Sonic Colours was the last Modern Sonic game with boost gameplay that was 100% original and without having an alternative gameplay style. The Sonic Team cannot just produce recycled anniversary games or else the franchise will never evolve whereas Mario, Crash and even Pac-Man are changing.

[mdesaleah]

"Will never evolve".

Already has.

Frontiers was full of new ideas (gameplay, enemies, and story ideas). Only the cyberspace stages were reused zone aesthetics and sometimes level design (which is a shame, but also it makes sense for the story and is a bit of foreshadowing. Not having that element would end up making part of the current story worse).

Generations is Generations. You don't play a Generations game expecting entirely new zones. The point is to be a "recap" game. Where in the case of Shadow, the stages and parts of the story are a "recap", but it ends up pushing more forward then anyone expected with the ending. It ended up being the next main story step for Shadow after his own game (06 erased itself at the end, so no one remembers it)

Even Shadow Generations has Doom Powers, and another version of the Frontiers hubs. So even a Generations game is now doing new things.

[Ikagura]

Originally posted by mdesaleah:

"Will never evolve".

Already has.

Frontiers was full of new ideas (gameplay, enemies, and story ideas). Only the cyberspace stages were reused zone aesthetics and sometimes level design (which is a shame, but also it makes sense for the story and is a bit of foreshadowing. Not having that element would end up making part of the current story worse).

Frontiers' Open Zones are not an original idea whatsoever.

We already had many fangames attempting to give Sonic some "open world" aspects and I'd even argue that Sonic Adventure's hub already acted as an "Open Zone" in some regard (we even had bosses and minibosses set in there).

Originally posted by mdesaleah:

Generations is Generations. You don't play a Generations game expecting entirely new zones. The point is to be a "recap" game. Where in the case of Shadow, the stages and parts of the story are a "recap", but it ends up pushing more forward then anyone expected with the ending. It ended up being the next main story step for Shadow after his own game (06 erased itself at the end, so no one remembers it).

People call Sonic x Shadow Generations one of the best Modern Sonic game yet it's a remaster of a game that recycled levels. Shadow's side is barely original as it's a mix of Generations and Frontiers.

Originally posted by mdesaleah:

Even Shadow Generations has Doom Powers, and another version of the Frontiers hubs. So even a Generations game is now doing new things.

Doom powers are some sort of gimmicks that aren't too far from Wisp's colour power.

[mdesaleah]

^Try playing Shadow Generations and actually owning the game if you want to know if its "barely original". There's a big difference between reusing zone themes, and actually "recycling levels". Generations only ever does the former.

If you can point to one other game in the series that released before Frontiers and plays like it, then you can have the "Frontiers was unoriginal" claim. The answer is "None", with the closest one being part of the game that released right after (but even then not fully, and the balance of hub and stage focus is actually flipped around)

[NBOX21]

Originally posted by Ikagura:

Frontiers' Open Zones are not an original idea whatsoever.

We already had many fangames attempting to give Sonic some "open world" aspects and I'd even argue that Sonic Adventure's hub already acted as an "Open Zone" in some regard (we even had bosses and minibosses set in there).

The thing is - those are HUBs.

They're meant to be the gateway to the game's main attraction, those being the action stages themselves. They just so happen to connect very well with the HUB areas like Emerald Coast being accessed by running past the hotel swimming pool, which even later games couldn't do nearly as well with 06's mirrors feeling disconnected from those HUBs.

Frontiers is basically the opposite of that - if the HUBs were the gateway to the levels in prior games and to some extent Shadow Generations as well, then Frontiers has the Open Zones being the main attraction with the Cyberspace levels being the gateway to their progression.

The only Open World Sonic Fan Game I can think of that even came close to attempting this sort of idea is Sonic Utopia and from what I've seen, it is one of the most empty and bland Open Worlds I have ever seen.

[supermichael]

I would like to see Sonic Adventure 3 made, which has Chao Garden. I would like it to be 100% 3D and the gameplay rely on spin dash instead of boosting. I would also like to see Sonic and his friends playable, if his enemies are playable then even better.

Although another Sonic Heroes would be good, I did enjoy having 3 characters playable at the same time as a team. There are 4 teams in the game.

[Ikagura]

Originally posted by supermichael:

I would like to see Sonic Adventure 3 made

Sonic 2006.

Originally posted by supermichael:

which has Chao Garden.

It was a relic of its time where Tamagochis were popular.

Originally posted by supermichael:

I would like it to be 100% 3D and the gameplay rely on spin dash instead of boosting.

The spin dash is clearly meant for 2D gameplay (it's like adding homing attacks in a 2D Sonic game, it doesn't work as well). Boosting is a natural evolution of the gameplay.

Originally posted by supermichael:

I would also like to see Sonic and his friends playable, if his enemies are playable then even better.

I'd prefer Sonic alone but with a complete gameplay than relying on multiple gameplay styles that do not fit Sonic's.

Originally posted by supermichael:

Although another Sonic Heroes would be good, I did enjoy having 3 characters playable at the same time as a team. There are 4 teams in the game.

Heroes was a slog towards the end.

[Mez Koo]

Frontiers was an original game, cyberspace was basically just a mini game.

"Sonic Colors was the last original game" yet Lost World was an original game that didn't reuse anything, had all unique levels, mechanics, and new villains.

Also Generations and Shadow Generations were fairly original mostly taking inspiration from past stuff imagined, even Rooftop Run is different enough to feel like a different level and that's probably the most 1 to 1 example. Also

But sure let's praise Mario which has just as many recycled/uninspired games.

[Mez Koo]

Originally posted by mdesaleah:

^Try playing Shadow Generations and actually owning the game if you want to know if its "barely original". There's a big difference between reusing zone themes, and actually "recycling levels". Generations only ever does the former.

This, if you actually bothered to play it you'd know none of the levels are like their originals at all... just like Sonic Generations they take the themes and styles and re-imagine them as a modern style game,

[GrimAtrament]

Originally posted by Ikagura:

Originally posted by supermichael:

I would like to see Sonic Adventure 3 made

Sonic 2006.
It was a relic of its time where Tamagochis were popular.
The spin dash is clearly meant for 2D gameplay (it's like adding homing attacks in a 2D Sonic game, it doesn't work as well). Boosting is a natural evolution of the gameplay.
I'd prefer Sonic alone but with a complete gameplay than relying on multiple gameplay styles that do not fit Sonic's.

sonic forces is generations 2 by that logic, give it a rest and accept that one bad game doesn't make adventure games bad.
tamagochi's dna haven't gone anywhere, digimon is sitll around
pokemon go is just modern tamagochi.
palworld is literally making a mint off monster rasing.
saying rasing sims are a relic is ignoring the fact that raising sims are still made and extremely successful model.
taking away the spin dash is like taking away kirbys copy ability, samus morphball, starfoxes arcwing. it's taking away a core part of his identity. boost should have stayed in sonic rush and not replaced spin dash.
we've now had multiple games that prove spin dash work.
SA1, SA2, Frontier.
we can't say the same with boost.
sa1 and sa2 might not have the best ports but they are doing better then the colors port which has just about as many problems with it's port which should tell you which is the superior game style.
sonic's always had and should always have multiple playable characters since the 2nd installment. if you can't accept that you're in the wrong franchise mario fanboy.

lets face it you don't like this franchise and just want it to be something it's not.

Originally posted by Mez Koo:

Originally posted by mdesaleah:

^Try playing Shadow Generations and actually owning the game if you want to know if its "barely original". There's a big difference between reusing zone themes, and actually "recycling levels". Generations only ever does the former.

This, if you actually bothered to play it you'd know none of the levels are like their originals at all... just like Sonic Generations they take the themes and styles and re-imagine them as a modern style game,

legends of zelda breath of the wild is one of the best zelda games and is literally just one giant homage to all the previous installments.

not to mention reusing assets is something EVERY game does.

MHwilds has been using the same skeletons since MH1 with very little touch ups.

the soulsborne games reuse assets that date as far back as demon souls.

the dmc1 literlaly was just a bunch of resident evil assets mashed into a new game and became one of capcoms most successful franchises.

[NBOX21]

Originally posted by Ikagura:

Originally posted by supermichael:

I would also like to see Sonic and his friends playable, if his enemies are playable then even better.

I'd prefer Sonic alone but with a complete gameplay than relying on multiple gameplay styles that do not fit Sonic's.

Multiple playable characters, when they compliment the core gameplay experience really well, are welcome additions that can even add a bit of variety if handled properly. That's why I love having Tails and Knuckles playable in 2D Sonic games as their abilities add to the game while still keeping the core gameplay, and I still for the most part enjoy playing as them in the Adventure games as well.

The reason characters like Big and Amy don't work for me is because the latter is very slow and doesn't service the main game loop at all, while the former changes genres entirely and barely even works properly for what it was trying to be.

[supermichael]

Originally posted by Ikagura:

Sonic 2006.

By that logic there shouldn't be anymore boost games, since they made Sonic Forces. There shouldn't be anymore 2D games since they made Sonic 4 Episode 1.

Sonic 2006 turned out bad, due to all their bad decisions. It doesn't mean Sonic Adventure 3 will turn out bad.

You always bring up Sonic 2006 as an excuse for them not to make Sonic Adventure 03, but you have no problem with new boost and 2D Sonic getting made, even though Sonic Forces and Sonic 4 wasn't good.

Originally posted by Ikagura:

It was a relic of its time where Tamagochis were popular.

It is still popular now, as proven in a interview.

Sega has said they will only return the Chaos Garden, if they make Sonic Adventure 3 also.

Originally posted by Ikagura:

The spin dash is clearly meant for 2D gameplay (it's like adding homing attacks in a 2D Sonic game, it doesn't work as well). Boosting is a natural evolution of the gameplay.

The spin dash works in the past 3D games and in fan games, there is no reason why it wouldn't work well in future 3D games.

Originally posted by Ikagura:

I'd prefer Sonic alone but with a complete gameplay than relying on multiple gameplay styles that do not fit Sonic's.

There is nothing wrong with Sonic games having Sonic friends and enemies playable and having multiple gameplay style like the Adventure games, or having the same gameplay like in Sonic Heroes.

If the past official game games and fan game can have Sonic and his friends playable, there is no reason that future official games can't have them also playable.

[getKO'ed]

Originally posted by Ikagura:

And by fully original I mean no Cyberspace stages taking Generations assets and older game level design, no older areas from previous games like in Forces with Green Hill and Death Egg, not making a bland Mario Galaxy ripoff with NSMB like worlds from Lost World and not an anniversary callback game like Generations.

Sonic Colours was the last Modern Sonic game with boost gameplay that was 100% original and without having an alternative gameplay style. The Sonic Team cannot just produce recycled anniversary games or else the franchise will never evolve whereas Mario, Crash and even Pac-Man are changing.

you forgot Sonic Superstars... if you're going to complain at least know what you're talking about

[NBOX21]

Originally posted by getKO'ed:

Originally posted by Ikagura:

And by fully original I mean no Cyberspace stages taking Generations assets and older game level design, no older areas from previous games like in Forces with Green Hill and Death Egg, not making a bland Mario Galaxy ripoff with NSMB like worlds from Lost World and not an anniversary callback game like Generations.

Sonic Colours was the last Modern Sonic game with boost gameplay that was 100% original and without having an alternative gameplay style. The Sonic Team cannot just produce recycled anniversary games or else the franchise will never evolve whereas Mario, Crash and even Pac-Man are changing.

you forgot Sonic Superstars... if you're going to complain at least know what you're talking about

That's a classic style 2D game, not a boost one like Colours was.
Also, that game had one level with that weird Phantasy Zone shmup gameplay that's forced and has nothing to do with platforming making it a waste of a level.

Yes, I know Mania had Mean Bean as well, but at least that game bothered to save that for the boss at the end of Act 2, not the whole Act.

[supermichael]

If new boost games and 2D Sonic games can come out, despite bad boost games and 2D games existing, then there is no reason why they can't make Sonic Adventure 3, which would have Chao Garden, have multiple characters and being 100% 3D.

People still likes the Adventure games and the content it has such as Chao Garden, mini games and multiple characters.

My top 5 Sonic games are these:

Sonic Adventure 1
Sonic Adventure 2
Sonic X Shadow Generations
Sonic Mania
Sonic 3 & Knuckles

[itzDerrio]

Originally posted by Ikagura:

Sonic Colours was the last Modern Sonic game with boost gameplay that was 100% original and without having an alternative gameplay style.

you mean like the stupid wisps gimmick and boring 2d platforming ripped straight from kirby? colors was the beginning of the end for sonic having his own identity, after their streak of "underperforming" sonic games sonic team straight up just started copying nintendo.

but i agree with you though, sonic team is incapable of ever making a completely new original sonic game ever again - they literally just rehash levels and re-sell it to people with dumb down gameplay and a paper-thin story and pretend like its actually a new game. sonic games pretty much became fast food for consumers, zero nutritional value (quality and depth) but easy af to play (afford).

Adventure 1 & 2, Unleashed, Heroes, Generations will always be peak (3D) sonic