Shadow Gen is short I wish...

[KuroAnimeGamer995]

Just finish Shadow Generations and the game was short that is my only complaint I have with it, SEGA and Sonic Team has a habit of including less stages on the new Hedgehog Engine of Speed base Sonic games. Here hoping for DLC Stages for this game or Stage mods. I'm the type of guy who finish it and want MORE! STAGES! Also not adding not at least one Shadow The Hedgehog the game stage in this was a crime. Modders will of course fix this with time. Would love to play Sky Troops in this game.

[Mez Koo]

Originally posted by Allard:

Originally posted by Ikagura:

Aka without trying to 100% it, only focusing on the main levels and side missions to unlock the bosses.

It's shorter than Generations with the 9 levels.

Funny you should say that because it's completely ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ false. I livestreamed both recently, doing just the story stuff to reach the ending - just one challenge per act in Sonic Gens and no collectibles in Shadow Gens - just about the only side activity I did was talking to NPCs between levels, which, uh... not the most time consuming. Sonic Gens took me 2 hours and 52 mins to complete, Shadow Gens took me 3 hs and 22 minutes.

Honestly I think Sonic Generations should have required all challenge gates (but get rid of doppelganger ones) to fight Time Eater. A lot of them are unique and some are heavily altered and might as well feel like new areas of the maps but because they're "side content" people skip em and miss out on some additional fun.

[Gnidex]

Originally posted by Mez Koo:

Originally posted by Allard:

Funny you should say that because it's completely ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ false. I livestreamed both recently, doing just the story stuff to reach the ending - just one challenge per act in Sonic Gens and no collectibles in Shadow Gens - just about the only side activity I did was talking to NPCs between levels, which, uh... not the most time consuming. Sonic Gens took me 2 hours and 52 mins to complete, Shadow Gens took me 3 hs and 22 minutes.

Honestly I think Sonic Generations should have required all challenge gates (but get rid of doppelganger ones) to fight Time Eater. A lot of them are unique and some are heavily altered and might as well feel like new areas of the maps but because they're "side content" people skip em and miss out on some additional fun.

That would ruin the pacing and drain the entire post-game - there would be nothing after Time Eater. I don't think turning Generations into another Dream Team with functionally 20 acts per zone would have made the game better. 6 from Colors is already stretching.

[itzDerrio]

Originally posted by Mez Koo:

Originally posted by Ikagura:

The main difference is that the Genesis games are made in another era, we're talking about a 2024 video game there.

Point is Sonic games aren't meant to be burned through once and thrown away, no one bought the $50 (in the 90s) games and thought "I'm only going to get a couple hours out of this" they replayed it and got better and learned new or faster routes. Sure there are collectibles now but its still the same with alternate routes and trying to get faster times so its still not to take that into account when thinking about game time value. Also games got easier over time which means less retrying, also also it doesn't help when people complained that Unleashed stages were too long.

Still though the length of Shadow Generations as a side game is impressive considering Colors, Generations, Lost World, and Forces and maybe with the success of both Frontiers and Shadow Generations we could possibly get Frontiers to include fully fledged "speed stages" in addition to the open zones as opposed to the short recycled cyberspace stages.

The trend of shorter and shorter "speed stages" was clearly because ever since the whole 06 and Unleashed hate era Sonic Team either got less and less resources and time or bad game direction and even Frontiers is an obvious sign of rushed time/resources and definitely felt like a "last chance" after Forces until it was a big hit and got additional support.

Also I wonder how many people don't realize there is a post-game hard-mode "expansion" with new white space challenges and an additional 10 hard mode bonus stages so do you not take that into account for your "normal length" as well?

The stage and length complaints about Unleashed were specific to werehog only & the demographics of those complaints were mostly ps2/wii players - the (worst) version of the game that was mostly werehog and little sonic.

Day levels are excellent & still the best in series - lengthy , virtually no garbage 2D segments & full 3D , no constant pace-breaking areas where you have to stop and platform after only boosting for hardly 3 seconds creating this annoying “stop and go” loop, all levels are completely new & original, & the game actually wants you to go as fast as possible and levels were designed around boosting instead of trying to do everything at once

[NBOX21]

Originally posted by Allard:

Originally posted by Ikagura:

You're talking about the side stuff.


The main story where you do the levels is quite short.

Yup, sounds like a Sonic game to me.

And that's a problem because...?

It's never about how long a a game is, it's about how the length of the game is handled and how the average play time is used. Sonic 2006 is one of the longest games in the series, but for all the wrong reasons as a large portion of that game is just spent watching loading screens (at least an hour and a half of a regular playthrough is just loading screens), is padded with terrible mandatory town missions and the levels themselves are way too long often featuring mindless combat segments that usually consists of mashing one button.

Sonic Forces is on the complete opposite extreme, where the levels do not get enough time to shine and the game itself lacks depth or replay value to keep players coming back. Meanwhile, a game like Sonic Riders is about as short as, if not shorter than Forces yet remains interesting and challenging the entire way through.

[Allard]

Originally posted by NBOX21:

And that's a problem because...?

It's never about how long a a game is, it's about how the length of the game is handled and how the average play time is used. Sonic 2006 is one of the longest games in the series, but for all the wrong reasons as a large portion of that game is just spent watching loading screens (at least an hour and a half of a regular playthrough is just loading screens), is padded with terrible mandatory town missions and the levels themselves are way too long often featuring mindless combat segments that usually consists of mashing one button.

Sonic Forces is on the complete opposite extreme, where the levels do not get enough time to shine and the game itself lacks depth or replay value to keep players coming back. Meanwhile, a game like Sonic Riders is about as short as, if not shorter than Forces yet remains interesting and challenging the entire way through. :ty2race:

'tis not a problem for me, but problem for our friend there, who seems to be made of bad Sonic takes.

[Mez Koo]

Originally posted by NBOX21:

Sonic 2006 is one of the longest games in the series, but for all the wrong reasons as a large portion of that game is just spent watching loading screens (at least an hour and a half of a regular playthrough is just loading screens),

During Lythero's Silver campaign they completed SA2 hero story during the loading screens.

Memes aside though hardware today blows through those loading times, the basically don't even exist on Xenia.

[Allard]

Originally posted by itzDerrio:

Day levels are excellent & still the best in series - lengthy , virtually no garbage 2D segments & full 3D

Ummm... that's, uh... not true.

[Mez Koo]

Originally posted by Allard:

Originally posted by itzDerrio:

Day levels are excellent & still the best in series - lengthy , virtually no garbage 2D segments & full 3D

Ummm... that's, uh... not true.

True as far as Boost style is concerned.

[itzDerrio]

Originally posted by Allard:

Originally posted by itzDerrio:

Day levels are excellent & still the best in series - lengthy , virtually no garbage 2D segments & full 3D

Ummm... that's, uh... not true.

yeah its true

[itzDerrio]

Originally posted by Bluetomahawk222:

Originally posted by itzDerrio:

yeah its true

https://youtu.be/9DKUNHF7VtE?si=e8EfjsSiwScvAU_K
0:33, right therr

i said “virtually” no 2D

[Bluetomahawk222]

Originally posted by itzDerrio:

Originally posted by Bluetomahawk222:

https://youtu.be/9DKUNHF7VtE?si=e8EfjsSiwScvAU_K
0:33, right therr

i said “virtually” no 2D

Thats on me, I read “garbage” before I saw “virtually, fixing now

[Allard]

Originally posted by itzDerrio:

i said “virtually” no 2D

Rooftop Run, Arid Sands, Cool Edge, Savanna Citadel. And those are just Act 1's with the notable 2D presence. If we go into the Act 2 and 3 territory, hooo boy.

Also the best levels in the series are in Shadow Generations.

[Mez Koo]

Originally posted by Allard:

Originally posted by itzDerrio:

i said “virtually” no 2D

Rooftop Run, Arid Sands, Cool Edge, Savanna Citadel. And those are just Act 1's with the notable 2D presence. If we go into the Act 2 and 3 territory, hooo boy.

You're really not getting it are you? Unleashed has no dedicated 2d sections in the main day stages aside from Savannah Citadel which does feel like a Colors stage (explained later). The 2.5d sections are short pace changers that transition seamlessly in and out of 3d sections like they were properly designed into the full level without breaking the speed and flow.

Then look at Colors, a game so full of 2d sections that sometimes it feels like the 3d sections are just boost tunnel transitions between the forced wisp power sections the game was designed around.

[GrimAtrament]

Originally posted by Allard:

Originally posted by itzDerrio:

i said “virtually” no 2D

Rooftop Run, Arid Sands, Cool Edge, Savanna Citadel. And those are just Act 1's with the notable 2D presence. If we go into the Act 2 and 3 territory, hooo boy.

Also the best levels in the series are in Shadow Generations.

Virtually
adverb
1.
nearly; almost.

[Allard]

Originally posted by itzDerrio:

What part of "virtually" dont you understand? The 2D segments in unleashed are very short & sweet - they actually work and flow with the level instead of completely breaking the pace of the game & overstaying its welcome. The 2D segments in Unleashed are more like "passing through" moments, whereas in later games its a ******g "stop-and-go"; except youre stopping for minutes at a damn time with your screen forced to 2.5D nonsense. you cant even boost for 3 seconds without the later games throwing another stale poorly played side-scroller. whereas in Unleashed they hardly matter, because so much more of the game's levels are 3D.

What part of "This whole shpiel of yours doesn't ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ apply to the levels I listed because there's nothing short and sweet about those 2D segments when compared to the 2D segments of Generations" don't you understand?

Originally posted by itzDerrio:

This is also, a bold-face, extreme lie, and completely wrong.

No, that's a bold-face extreme truth and completely right.

Originally posted by itzDerrio:

This is also, a bold-face, extreme lie, and completely wrong. Imagine making a boost game, with the game engine built around boosting, with boosting gameplay & mechanics - only for the levels to be designed around ******g platforming and stop-and-go nonsense with frequent automated segments where the game plays its self and you just watch.

Imagine having a boost game in which the platforming feels good so you can actually do some 3D platforming in your 3D platformer instead of relying on 2D segments for it. As for "frequent automated segments" - they aren't any more frequent than in any prior Sonic game since 3&K.

Originally posted by itzDerrio:

this is why this franchise will continue to be mid and sonic team never has to try anymore because all they need to do is feed the whales nostalgia 24/7 rehashing the same old ****, with watered down gameplay.

Yeah, because people like you are writing diatribes on the games they don't even own.

Originally posted by itzDerrio:

None of the levels in shadow generations are original either

Theme-wise? No, they aren't original. That's kinda the point of Generations. Level-design-wise is a completely different story.

Originally posted by itzDerrio:

its shadow DLC

There was a Shadow DLC for Sonic Generations?

Originally posted by itzDerrio:

the later games havent done anything since, but be consistent downgrades of it.

No, Shadow Generations is an objective upgrade over Unleashed. Both in level designs and controls.