The Legend of Heroes: Trails in the Sky

The Legend of Heroes: Trails in the Sky

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BulletFaith 12 ABR 2017 a las 5:40 p. m.
Olivier (Major spoiler, finish both FC and SC before reading)
So Olivier is by far my favorite character in the series and probably the most enigmatic of all the playable characters.

I am replaying FC after finishing FC-SC-CS1 and CS2 and i am i back at the first time we meet Olivier , at the Bar at Haken gate. I am wondering after knowing who he really is , if he staged his meeting with Estelle or if it was completely random.

Also i wonder if he found out that Estelle was Cassius daughter after they left him in Boss and then decided to get arrested in order to get close to Estelle so he could meet Cassius after that?

Olivier is far from stupid and he went in Librel on a mission and i douth that he would let himself get arrested for a stupid bottle of wine.

thoughts? Ideas?

:)


Última edición por BulletFaith; 13 ABR 2017 a las 1:59 a. m.
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Mostrando 1-14 de 14 comentarios
Mozendo 12 ABR 2017 a las 7:45 p. m. 
If you keep playing the game it'll tell you. I think it comes at the end of Chapter 1!
From what I remember
I don't think it was staged, but Olivier did recgonize Schera and decided to tag along hoping he would be able to talk to Cassius, you find out the reason why in SC
myhr2 12 ABR 2017 a las 10:31 p. m. 
Also, Olivier in Cold Steel is not the same as Olivier in Sky. In fact, it's quite awesome to see him in Cold Steel, where he's all "Hey, I visited this awesome place called Liberl, with lots of cool people and bracers and all...Now that I'm back home, I want to build the same here, but BIGGER, Erebonia-style!

Also, It's hinted in SC that Olivier always had the dream of reuniting Erebonia, which is deeply divided between the Noble and Chancellor factions. But he only acquired the determination to really act after meeting Cassius. Yup, Cassius is also inderictly responsible for the creation of class VII. Dammit, Cassius! Stop saving the world even when you're not here! xD

Anyway, nah, I don't think it was intentional, there is more than meets the eye, yeah, but at that time, Olivier is still mainly goofing around.
flamemasterelan 13 ABR 2017 a las 4:44 a. m. 
I think you're giving Cassius way too much credit here. Olivier's growth is more about the time he spent in Liberl in general, and his travels with Estelle. His time spent with Cassius is rather minimal.

CS1 Spoilers: Even the creation of Class VII is a result of his journey with Estelle, not Class VII. He, an Imperial Prince, teamed up with a group of commoners, foreigners and Royals who combined their efforts to avert disaster. Even Class VII's curriculum is specifically designed after Bracer work, because he saw firsthand how important that work is when he travelled with Estelle and Joshua.
flamemasterelan 13 ABR 2017 a las 4:52 a. m. 
As to the OP's topic, it's highly doubtful that Olivier staged his initial meeting with Estelle. I get the feeling their meeting was random, and he took a liking to her and decided to tag along until he figured out she was the daughter of the man he was looking for.

It wouldn't be too out of character, since Olivier did similar in SC, following Estelle along because he wanted to make sure she got a happy ending, even while he was running out of time to make his power play.

Also, Mozendo, I don't remember Olivier ever stating he recognized Schera. Mostly because...there's nothing to recognize. Schera's only famous in the Rolent region, and known among the other C/B rank Bracers. She definitely wouldn't be known internationally, and there's nothing to suggest she's even recognizable in Liberl.
Mozendo 13 ABR 2017 a las 5:08 a. m. 
Publicado originalmente por flamemasterelan:
Also, Mozendo, I don't remember Olivier ever stating he recognized Schera. Mostly because...there's nothing to recognize.
Olivier calls Schera by her nickname in the beginning of Chapter 2, he definitely recognized her.
http://i.imgur.com/6GAdAYS.jpg

Edit: While she's not as popular as Cassius, it's obvious that being Cassius' student did make her more popular compared to Bracers in her rank. Before their conversation fades Olivier brings up that he came to liberl to talk to someone she knows very well. Like I said it's very clear he recognized Schera and decided to tag along before finding out who Joshua and Estelle were.
Última edición por Mozendo; 13 ABR 2017 a las 5:13 a. m.
Domi 14 ABR 2017 a las 8:30 a. m. 
Olivier is extremely intelligent and uses his eccentric personality to cover that fact. That way, he can do as he pleases and rarely one would suspect him of his true intentions.

I think that NPCs may give us a hint about this. Was it staged or not? Because if they said something like "he's been here for some time" then that's proof it was staged. After all, Olivier wanted to visit Liberl and staying in one place for too long doesn't make sense.
Mozendo 14 ABR 2017 a las 9:41 a. m. 
Publicado originalmente por Domi:
I think that NPCs may give us a hint about this. Was it staged or not? Because if they said something like "he's been here for some time" then that's proof it was staged. After all, Olivier wanted to visit Liberl and staying in one place for too long doesn't make sense.
Pretty sure it was staged to a point. I don't think he was expecting Estelle, Joshua, and Schera, but he was definitely expecting bracers to talk to General Morgan. I think he was mostly expecting Cassius due to his relationship with General Morgan and Morgan's hate for bracers aside Cassius.
Última edición por Mozendo; 14 ABR 2017 a las 9:42 a. m.
flamemasterelan 15 ABR 2017 a las 8:24 p. m. 
Publicado originalmente por Mozendo:
Publicado originalmente por flamemasterelan:
Also, Mozendo, I don't remember Olivier ever stating he recognized Schera. Mostly because...there's nothing to recognize.
Olivier calls Schera by her nickname in the beginning of Chapter 2, he definitely recognized her.
http://i.imgur.com/6GAdAYS.jpg
Yeah, you realize he'd already been travelling with her for a while at that point, and had helped Estelle, Joshua and Schera with at least one major job for the Guild, not to mention all of the little optional quests you could've done with him at that point? Him knowing her nickname after working with her and getting to know her isn't really a surprise at all, since anyone could've called her that on-screen or off during the time he was travelling with her.

Edit: While she's not as popular as Cassius, it's obvious that being Cassius' student did make her more popular compared to Bracers in her rank. Before their conversation fades Olivier brings up that he came to liberl to talk to someone she knows very well. Like I said it's very clear he recognized Schera and decided to tag along before finding out who Joshua and Estelle were.
There's nothing to indicate he recognized Schera. Like, at all. He actually approached Joshua, and then Estelle, and then Schera when he first met the party, and barely interacted with her until they went drinking together. I literally just played the chapter yesterday, and there's no indication of him recognizing her or singling her out as anything other than attractive until they reunite in the Haken Gate prison.
Mozendo 15 ABR 2017 a las 10:46 p. m. 
Publicado originalmente por flamemasterelan:
Publicado originalmente por Mozendo:
Olivier calls Schera by her nickname in the beginning of Chapter 2, he definitely recognized her.
http://i.imgur.com/6GAdAYS.jpg
Yeah, you realize he'd already been travelling with her for a while at that point, and had helped Estelle, Joshua and Schera with at least one major job for the Guild, not to mention all of the little optional quests you could've done with him at that point? Him knowing her nickname after working with her and getting to know her isn't really a surprise at all, since anyone could've called her that on-screen or off during the time he was travelling with her.
But no one did that on screen, and there's really no defense for "it could have happened on-screen" counter-argument. Agate calls her the silver streak, but not while Olivier is around.

Publicado originalmente por flamemasterelan:
Publicado originalmente por Mozendo:
Edit: While she's not as popular as Cassius, it's obvious that being Cassius' student did make her more popular compared to Bracers in her rank. Before their conversation fades Olivier brings up that he came to liberl to talk to someone she knows very well. Like I said it's very clear he recognized Schera and decided to tag along before finding out who Joshua and Estelle were.
There's nothing to indicate he recognized Schera. Like, at all. He actually approached Joshua, and then Estelle, and then Schera when he first met the party, and barely interacted with her until they went drinking together. I literally just played the chapter yesterday, and there's no indication of him recognizing her or singling her out as anything other than attractive until they reunite in the Haken Gate prison.

How would he recognize Estelle and Joshua when it's explained that Cassius left them in Rolent when he went on bracer duty? If he knew who Estelle was then he must have known how Joshua was as well since it's be years that Joshua was fostered, but the only ones who would know outside of Rolent would be Ouroboros and maybe Erobonian officials who deal with Ouroboros and if Olivier knows who Joshua is then why did was he surprised that Joshua knew an Erobonian song at the end of the game?

You keep dismissing the biggest and only proof to why Olivier recognized Schera for something you have no proof whatsoever. It's never stated in the game that Olivier knew who Estelle and Joshua were (and there is no way for him of knowing) and you're basing this all because Olivier talked to them first? No bracer in Bose knew who Estelle and Joshua were by appearance, they had to be informed. Grant didn't recognize them, Lugren was informed ahead of time who they were which is why he questioned Schera/the crew, and Agate had no clue.

And here's the thing, he doesn't even talk to Joshua and Estelle specifically, he addresses all three members, it just so happens to be that Joshua and Estelle are the ones replying. He even casually tries to spend time alone with Schera by asking her out on a date, but she declines, and since he can't spend time with Schera alone that's when he tags along with the group, that's why he goes with Schera back to Rolent instead of sticking with Estelle and Joshua.

You're not backing your claim by any proof.
Última edición por Mozendo; 16 ABR 2017 a las 3:08 a. m.
flamemasterelan 16 ABR 2017 a las 7:42 a. m. 
I actually never said that Olivier recognized Estelle or Joshua, that's all you. My statement is that Olivier didn't recognize ANY of them, and simply followed along because he thought it would be fun, or because he thought tagging along with Bracers would give him a clue as to where Cassius is.

You're actually not offering ANY evidence that Olivier recognized ANY character. Because there is none. He didn't call Schera "Silver Streak" when they met, only after they'd known each other for several days and he openly aided in their Bracer work. Schera is a C-ranked Bracer at the time of Trails in the Sky FC, who works almost exclusively in the Rolent area, one of probably hundreds if not thousands. It's ridiculous to assume that an Erebonian citizen would know a C-Ranked Bracer who worked exclusively in the backwater region of a backwater nation. "She was trained by Cassius" is meaningless, because Cassius trains EVERYONE. He taught Richard, Julia, Cid, Agate, Schera, Joshua and Estelle in this game along that we KNOW of. Not to mention future games that reveal that he trained much stronger and much more famous Bracers. Olivier would have had to get a complete dossier on everyone that Cassius ever had contact with and then memorize all of their profiles for your claim to make any sense. Why would he remember Schera, a mid-rank Bracer that was trained, like probably half the Bracers in the country, by Cassius?

It just doesn't make sense. It's far more likely, not to mention in-character, that Olivier spotted the party, figured out they were Bracers and decided to travel along with them for a while. Either for the fun of it, which is 100% Olivier, or because he thought that travelling with Bracers would eventually lead him back to Cassius. The prison meeting could be by design(he figured out who they were and got himself arrested to meet them again), but I sincerely doubt even that. Olivier was in prison BEFORE Joshua, Estelle and Schera were brought in. He would have had to figure out what they were doing, predict that they would be arrested by the military, purposely down an entire bottle of wine and HOPE that the manager would report him for the theft in order for that gambit to work out.

(Also, Olivier definitely called out Joshua, specifically. He called him attractive and asked him out on a date first. When Joshua declined, he moved onto Schera)

Finally, juuuuust for the sake of argument here, because I can't see this as anything but a coincidence... Your argument is that Olivier wanted to meet Cassius, so he studied up on all of Cassius' many students, met Schera by chance, and approached her to lead him to Cassius. But wouldn't all that research lead him to Estelle before it led him to Schera? I mean, if you're studying a man, the generally rule of thumb would be Man > Spouse > Immediate Family > Friends > Coworkers.

Seriously, your argument is debunked in almost every direction here. And the only evidence you've brought to the table is that Olivier refers to Schera as "Silver Streak," her commonly used nickname, after 3+ days of being around her and doing Bracer work with her?
Última edición por flamemasterelan; 16 ABR 2017 a las 7:57 a. m.
Mozendo 16 ABR 2017 a las 12:17 p. m. 
Publicado originalmente por flamemasterelan:
You're actually not offering ANY evidence that Olivier recognized ANY character. Because there is none. He didn't call Schera "Silver Streak" when they met
Except you're missing one key detail, he only called Schera the Silver Streak when she caught him being suspscious and that's when he opened up a bit more about himself, just a bit because of course he was still hiding information from the party.

Publicado originalmente por flamemasterelan:
"She was trained by Cassius" is meaningless, because Cassius trains EVERYONE. He taught Richard, Julia, Cid, Agate, Schera, Joshua and Estelle in this game along that we KNOW of.
Schera was his first pupil that he traveled around Liberl on bracer business and at the time was the most popular.

Publicado originalmente por flamemasterelan:
Why would he remember Schera, a mid-rank Bracer that was trained, like probably half the Bracers in the country, by Cassius?
Not mentioned in the story. As of right now there are only 4 bracers that were trained by Cassius. Yet again you're using "what if" to argue something that's in the game. Kurt and the other liberl bracers do not mention or even hint that they were trained by Cassius


Publicado originalmente por flamemasterelan:
It just doesn't make sense. It's far more likely, not to mention in-character, that Olivier spotted the party, figured out they were Bracers
Yes this is exactly what happened, I'm not disputing that.

Publicado originalmente por flamemasterelan:
The prison meeting could be by design(he figured out who they were and got himself arrested to meet them again), but I sincerely doubt even that. Olivier was in prison BEFORE Joshua, Estelle and Schera were brought in. He would have had to figure out what they were doing, predict that they would be arrested by the military, purposely down an entire bottle of wine and HOPE that the manager would report him for the theft in order for that gambit to work out.
At least you're realizing that this is a what if / could be situation but again there's really no proof for this.

Publicado originalmente por flamemasterelan:
Also, Olivier definitely called out Joshua, specifically. He called him attractive and asked him out on a date first. When Joshua declined, he moved onto Schera
For someone who said he played the chapter recently you're wrong yet again. I'm sure you realized you're it but you just don't want to admit it at this point.
https://lparchive.org/The-Legend-of-Heroes-Trails-in-the-Sky/Update%2015/

Publicado originalmente por flamemasterelan:
Your argument is that Olivier wanted to meet Cassius, so he studied up on all of Cassius' many students
No, he probably already knew who Schera was since she was assosciated with Cassius. As I said before Schera was his first student he trained. At the time of FC, was likely the most popular too.

Publicado originalmente por flamemasterelan:
I mean, if you're studying a man, the generally rule of thumb would be Man > Spouse > Immediate Family > Friends > Coworkers.
No proof Olivier did this. Are you saying because this is how you would have done it / how it should be done that this is proof? Come one man.

Publicado originalmente por flamemasterelan:
Seriously, your argument is debunked in almost every direction here. And the only evidence you've brought to the table is that Olivier refers to Schera as "Silver Streak," her commonly used nickname, after 3+ days of being around her and doing Bracer work with her?
Not really, for some reason you want to use your own theory and are bringing up the "we've might have gotten info off-screen! You never know!" and dismissing proof. If you ever find out proof as to why your theory is correct feel free to share, but until then don't be surprised if people call you out on your GameFAQs style lore debating especially when you're debating against what's shown in the game.

I don't really want to continue talking to someone so dense.
flamemasterelan 16 ABR 2017 a las 2:16 p. m. 
Publicado originalmente por Mozendo:
Except you're missing one key detail, he only called Schera the Silver Streak when she caught him being suspscious and that's when he opened up a bit more about himself, just a bit because of course he was still hiding information from the party.
And yet there was no indication from Schera that he shouldn't know that name, or surprise that he figured it out. Why? Because she wasn't hiding it from him, and because he probably should have known at that point. She's called "The Silver Streak" about three times a chapter, minimum.

Schera was his first pupil that he traveled around Liberl on bracer business and at the time was the most popular.
Whaaaat? I'm sorry, but first of all, where do you get the idea that he travelled around Liberl with her on business? Estelle SPECIFICALLY states that Schera was off travelling the Kingdom by herself while Cassius was working at the beginning of the story. Furthermore, where do you get the idea that she was his first pupil?

Not mentioned in the story. As of right now there are only 4 bracers that were trained by Cassius. Yet again you're using "what if" to argue something that's in the game. Kurt and the other liberl bracers do not mention or even hint that they were trained by Cassius
Except it is mentioned in the story. Cassius' backstory is about how he retired from the military to join the Bracer's Guild in an effort to step up their presence. It's noted that he took multiple Bracers under his wing, including Schera and Agate, and probably trained quite a few more.

For someone who said he played the chapter recently you're wrong yet again. I'm sure you realized you're it but you just don't want to admit it at this point.
https://lparchive.org/The-Legend-of-Heroes-Trails-in-the-Sky/Update%2015/
You're right, I mixed up the encounters. He hit on Joshua first when they met, then hit on Schera after sitting down and asked her out, then moved back to Joshua.

No, he probably already knew who Schera was since she was assosciated with Cassius. As I said before Schera was his first student he trained. At the time of FC, was likely the most popular too.
Except that Schera wasn't popular? She's a mid-ranked Bracer. And there's no evidence she's the first one he trained, either.

No proof Olivier did this. Are you saying because this is how you would have done it / how it should be done that this is proof? Come one man.
No, you're the one claiming that Olivier knows Schera because he researched Cassius.

Not really, for some reason you want to use your own theory and are bringing up the "we've might have gotten info off-screen! You never know!" and dismissing proof. If you ever find out proof as to why your theory is correct feel free to share, but until then don't be surprised if people call you out on your GameFAQs style lore debating especially when you're debating against what's shown in the game.

I don't really want to continue talking to someone so dense.
Man, I don't know why you have to resort to insults if you feel like you're actually winning your "argument." I'm not debating against anything that's shown in the game, because there's not one indication in the game that Olivier actually knew who Schera is before he met her. And this is a game that lays those indicators on THICK. That's why Joshua has a "..." and a suspicious expression on his face every time he recognizes someone or sees something that the player's supposed to take note of. That's why Alba's expression changes when he mentions the Aureole. But when Olivier refers to Schera as the "Silver Streak," there's no change of expression and no indicator that this is off in any way.
BulletFaith 16 ABR 2017 a las 2:24 p. m. 
Man! so much passion from both of you guys lol!!

I really like characters that can hide there true intention behind humour and misdirection like Olivier , he reminds me of Vash the Stampede from Trigun in some ways.
flamemasterelan 16 ABR 2017 a las 2:56 p. m. 
Publicado originalmente por BulletFaith:
Man! so much passion from both of you guys lol!!

I really like characters that can hide there true intention behind humour and misdirection like Olivier , he reminds me of Vash the Stampede from Trigun in some ways.

I think the fun thing about Olivier's character is that it's not an act. Him joking around, acting silly and flirting with everything that has two legs is just who he is. Most of the time he acts seriously, he's putting on an act of some sort.

This is easiest to see when he's with Mueller, or his family in Cold Steel. He lets his guard down and allows himself to be seen as silly with the people he trusts and/or likes.
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