Upgrade options are whack

[cathartic]

I'm trying to upgrade Hologram. I've played a whole load of games where I've been able to upgrade the skill to max, but have never been offered "Multivitamin Gummies" to complete the upgrade.

Meanwhile in my latest game I've been offered Fire Tornado to replace one of my active skills for about 10 levels in a row. What is going on? Typically one to two of my upgrade options are reserved for improving one of my existing passives. If Fire Tornado is perma-blocking one of the other slots then there's very little room for me to get Mutlivitamin gummies and actually complete the upgrade. This is frustrating.

[lollars]

you can get a block function and a reroll function i think the option you get are predeterment at the start and only with the luck stat and reroll+block you are getting other options

[cathartic]

Your information provides some important context, but it doesn't change my overall conclusion - the system is still whack.

> I think the option you get are predeterment at the start

Why on earth would they do that? It's obviously worse than a purely random system.

As for using blocks and rerollls - I've unlocked one of each on most of my TemTem - however it's not uncommon for me to use them to get the particular skills I want, which means they simply aren't available if, as I described in my earlier post, I face blocking skills when I'm trying to get the passives I want.

[cathartic]

I am starting to reach my own conclusions - these are only tentative, and I have no real evidence to back them up other than my own anecdotal experience, but this is what seems to be going on.

The player is encouraged via the choices offered to pick 4 active skills relatively early. The game will then offer them items to upgrade 2 of those skills relatively early - before level 20. That's what seems to happen almost every game. 2 of my skills are offered upgrades early on and the others are not.

Potentially, in the very late game (level 35+) a chance is offered to upgrade a 3rd skill. I can't remember a game with 4 upgrades.

If this is what's actually happening - if the game is presenting the illusion of random skill upgrades whilst actually manipulating the outcomes behind the scenes, then that is extremely dubious. If a player is aiming for a particular upgrade, perhaps for an achievement, but it is not one of the first 2 offered, then they are essentially wasting their time, keeping on making level up roles, chasing that rewards, with zero chance of actually receiving it.

If a similar thing happened in gambling - if a slot machine continually encouraged people to drop in coins with zero chance of a payout, then I'm pretty sure it would be illegal. It's clearly not illegal here, since no money is being gambled, only time. However, if my theories are correct, then their system remains massively unethical.

[HereIsPlenty]

That is a pretty wild series of claims. I encountered no major problems in getting any of the combinations. A couple took a couple of tries but nothing that smacks of being "massively unethical" - do you really need to be that extreme in your posturing?

[cathartic]

Originally posted by HereIsPlenty:

That is a pretty wild series of claims. I encountered no major problems in getting any of the combinations. A couple took a couple of tries but nothing that smacks of being "massively unethical" - do you really need to be that extreme in your posturing?

Out of curiosity, in all your games were you ever given the opportunity to upgrade all 4 weapons? And were you ever not given the opportunity, in games that you reached the end boss, to upgrade at least 2?

[HereIsPlenty]

Yes I did actually upgrade all 4 once. And of course, early on, before you max a weapon, you cannot upgrade it - you need to unlock the evolution on one run then upgrade it on another.

[Solarson]

I agree with those claims. In my experience the same thing happens. I don't think there is a pure RNG system in place for this game, things seem pre-determined.

[Roneeh]

You guys are wild lmao. I've been able to upgrade skills and have all four +'d, even with swapping out. What are you even talking about

[Tenseiken]

I have definitely played many games where getting the right gear for the right skill just didn't happen. Part of which is definitely explained because of how there's gears with different rarity and the luck stat explicity stating that it affects rarity, among other things.

Other than that, I've played a bit more than 30 hours and a whole bunch of survivor-likes and even though there's not too many gears to choose from, every run there's I won't see one or more gears at ALL, even if I use everything given to prolong filling up slots and/or blocking other gears. The system is definitely weighted in SOME way or another. I strictly do not believe this is pure rng and some luck-stat-increasing bias towards higher rarity - there definitely is something else OR simply not working correctly. Granted I only have my own and 2 friends of matching experience, I still stand by it. Would be cool if a Dev could givesome kinda statement to that just to clear things up. I'm not really mad, I just wish there was some kinda clarity, because I had some really frustrating runs because of it and I wanna know if I did something wrong or something else.