Devil items.

[Scrubwave]

Absolute garbage. The best fix would be to remove about a dozen of meh items from the pool.
Angels give you fairly consistently good items for free, devil gives you garbotrash for health.

[Dangertits]

L take

[chronic_gibus_user]

L take

[oneyun]

L take

[Danizk0]

Learn how to use items to their full potential and you'll see that almost all of devil's "garbotrash" is likely to be a lot more useful than the one item you're going to get from an angel room after going through 4 floors without any help from either deity.

The biggest L take you can have in Isaac, I spit on angel fanboys

[Scrubwave]

"Just learn how to use Brother Bobby to his full potential."
t. sub 1k hours in Isaac

[Danizk0]

Yup, looks like you're getting it already

Bobby and other familiars contribute to Conjoined, which is probably the 2nd best transformation in the game, bested only by Guppy. That should already be enough reasoning for you to always take them unless you're very low on health, but yes, they can also help you kill stuff on the first 4 floors. Basic familiars are not as horrible in terms of damage as people claim (hell, almost all of them have better DPS than Isaac with starting stats), so they are quite usable if you don't have anything better to rely on. Demon Baby in particular is INSANELY underrated, I had no clue how good it is before it carried me on Fiend Folio's "The Gauntlet" challenge.

Not sure what my hour count has to do with the discussion, since I'm clearly more experienced than you and I've even proven it to you in the past (I think it was the J&E to Delirium through Hush video.) If you have other examples of "bad" devil deal items, I'd love to change your mind about them.

[Scrubwave]

Conjoined is good and can be gotten without getting subpar devil deals. Brother Bobby and devil pool remains garbage. Sorry that I don't know who you are or watch your videos wherever you are.

[Danizk0]

Nevermind, you're not the guy who requested that video. But if you're going to be so stubborn, why did you start this discussion? I gave you a great explanation and you threw it away without even trying out the thing I talked about.

[Scrubwave]

I said that conjoined is a great transformation. I also said that bbobby and devil pool remains garbage. Pay attention.

[Danizk0]

Yes, I saw that and I wondered why you didn't bother to try doing what I said. If you agree that Conjoined is a powerful transformation, why would you not want to be able to obtain it quicker and much more reliably for just 1 heart container per item that contributes to it? How is that a bad deal?

[Scrubwave]

I'll take it if I'm 2/3 conjoined. The item remains garbage and so is the devil deal with it. In the same vein, so is necronomicon despite being part of bookworm.

[Danizk0]

Why? Taking it when you're below 2/3 still increases the chance of you getting the transformation. You're probably going to get a familiar in the future and regret not buying the one from the devil deal. And even if you buy it and don't end up getting the transformation, who cares? It's only 1 heart container - a dirt-cheap investment with a very worthwile potential outcome.

I agree about Necronomicon because libraries are common and the transformation is not nearly as impactful, but I still might take it just for fun if I don't have an active item.

[Scrubwave]

Originally posted by Danizk0:

It's only 1 heart container

Unless you take characters who don't have red heart containers into consideration. And conjoined familiars are common enough that you don't need to trade health for them, especially bad ones. Devil rooms are bad even in the absence of angel rooms because they very often don't have anything interesting/good in them. Sometimes you just get red chests of spiders and troll bombs. And when you get item deals they're underwhelming because the pool is so diluted.

[Danizk0]

Soul hearts aren't that hard to come by, I buy familiars with them too. A very simple, but incredibly impactful tip is to go to the shop on every floor and buy a soul heart. There's usually one for sale.

Red-chest devil rooms are not as common as you think, iirc they were given lower weights in one of the updates. Before that, they were pretty annoying, yeah.

I looked through the devil pool and only found 17 bad items out of ~80:

• Book of Sin
  
• Necronomicon
  
• Plan C
  
• Blood Rights (can be used to gain access to curse rooms and open spike chests without losing soul hearts, but still a worse version of the Razor Blade)
  
• Monster Manual
  
• Sulfur (decent if you don't have an active item)
  
• Berserk! (decent if you don't have an active item)
  
• Missing Page 2
  
• Betrayal (haven't tried it after the rework, but still doesn't sound very useful)
  
• Black Powder
  
• Shade
  
• 2Spooky
  
• Brimstone Bombs
  
• Hungry Soul (only good for builds with low firerate and high damage)
  
• Vengeful Spirit (underwhelming, but not unusable with self-damaging things)
  
• Judas' Shadow (useless if you're going for unlocks and you're not Judas, otherwise incredible)

Everything aside from those items and 6 controversial ones (Forget Me Now, Lemegeton, Quarter, Blood Oath, Lil Delirium and Ocular Rift) is either very nice to have or downright amazing. A 25% chance of getting something bad and a 75% chance of getting something great doesn't seem too diluted to me.

[F IAaP n]

I feel you, OP
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2897010929