about gnawed leaf....PLEASE NERF IT!

[mr.fox]

just had a run with the item 120 volt+gnawed leaf (let this synergy sink in...)
these are the only items i needed to beat the witness!
at one point she did her charge attack and i got her body blocked while being stuck in the charging animation and i just waited for her to die.
the fact that not only 120 volt is able to make this broken build but also every item that doesn't require isaac to shoot any tears to do damage

[Judgmental Amaterasu]

Originally posted by Nelots:

Originally posted by Rubyeyed:

You all talk like you get gnawed leaf every run. i saw it literally once since repentance came out.

Are you really that upset about people getting something for "free" with just enough time investment? This gatekeeping mentality in this discussion board is really sickening.

Lol. Just because you don't see it every run doesn't mean it's not OP as hell, and just because I want it nerfed doesn't mean I'm gatekeeping. Are you stupid? With this mentality literally nothing should ever be nerfed, ever. There is a difference between wanting a balanced game and gatekeeping.

And I'm not really "that upset" either. If it never gets nerfed I really don't care, I just think it should be.

So i assume that means everytime you make an absurdly broken combination of items that by themselves arent that good, you're gonna come sperg about them too?

[Duck-]

Originally posted by Nelots:

Also, to the person that said some people might need it to beat certain bosses, that's a terrible argument and shows how OP it is. If a player can't beat a certain boss without invulnerability cheesing, they probably shouldn't be fighting that boss.

And why shouldn't they? There are plenty of other stupidly OP things in the game too, which allow you to clear a game in a fraction of the time in comparison.
This game isn't played competitively so who cares?

[Rio]

gnawed leaf exists so everyone, no matter skill level can eventually 100% the game.

[Nelots]

Originally posted by YCGTW:

How would you suggest nerfing it? Make it temporary? You'll just end up getting bum rushed by enemies.

Two words: Fear aura.

Originally posted by Damp Wizard Sleeve:

So i assume that means everytime you make an absurdly broken combination of items that by themselves arent that good, you're gonna come sperg about them too?

Originally posted by Duck-:

And why shouldn't they? There are plenty of other stupidly OP things in the game too, which allow you to clear a game in a fraction of the time in comparison.
This game isn't played competitively so who cares?

I see your points, but personally I think there is a bit of a difference when it's an item that literally godmodes you if you stand still for like two seconds. It'd be one like if it were like steam sale + steam sale + restock, a very, very hard combo to achieve (which was STILL nerfed btw), but no, it's gnawed leaf and literally any contact damage/familiar/orbital.
I believe my biggest issue with it is, rather than being OP, you're just cheesing the game. It doesn't require any skill and you don't need to understand how the boss works. You just stand there. Meanwhile if you don't understand how Mother works, even with Tech X, you will more than likely be wailed on.

[Zero Grim]

Sure gnawed leaf+orbital is broken.... if you have a couple hours to kill.

If you want to actually play the game and not die of boredom its mostly just useful for what it does, allowing you to take breaks from big attacks

[Nelots]

Originally posted by Zero Grim:

Sure gnawed leaf+orbital is broken.... if you have a couple hours to kill.

If you want to actually play the game and not die of boredom its mostly just useful for what it does, allowing you to take breaks from big attacks

Pausing the game also achieves this without sacrificing valuable boss rush time. As it is now, the only purpose for the gnawed leaf is to cheese ♥♥♥♥. Balance-wise, it's a bad item imo.

[patrol]

There is more than 700 items (714 according to platinumgod website) the game can give you. That leaves you with technically about 0,14005602240896% chance to encounter the one you want (gnawed leaf in this case), if we mix all the item pools, about 0,27027027027027% if we only count the item room pool items (about 370 items), then you have to get an orbital or anything that does dmg to a boss on it's own that won't force you to move/attack. Let's say there's 30 items that don't need you to do anything in order to do dmg (increase this number if you feel it's too low) so that's also around another 4,20168067226891% chance to encounter 1 if we throw all items into 1 huge pile.

All that said, with those numbers you have about 0,011355893708834880535998183057% chance to find both gnawed leaf and an item dealing dmg without your input (most values are rounded). This is just the approximate chance of finding your combo, all items thrown into 1 pool, there are the riders who just drop an orbital most of the time but encountering them is not in this calculation.

How do you propose the item be nerfed without just making it a crappy copy of an already existing item at this point ?

Also someone suggested it just feared enemies, there's the 2SPOOKY thing

[Jevmen]

Gnawed leaf must not be nerfed BUT instead must be redesigned, trigering in a diferent way and for limited time

[Polarbear]

if you have enough time you can in theory do all completion marks for every character as tainted cain

[Rio]

Originally posted by Jevmen:

Gnawed leaf must not be nerfed BUT instead must be redesigned, trigering in a diferent way and for limited time

Alreadry exists dude. The pointy rock item.

[>[Blackthunder]<]

Tsss chill down, its still a Single Player Game, you dont have a Disadvantage if others use that item to get something done when they couldnt, that keeps them from Cheating or Deinstalling.
And If u have no good orbitals which can Happen there are Bosses where you can sit forever.
Loki in Boss Rush took me 40minutes because i only had Gemini. Since i had only 2 Hearts and Moms Foot stomping permanently on my Head i had to rely on that Leaf, the Bomb Flys + Mom, made very less time to reposition myself to get gemini Closer to Loki.
But well in the end a Bug killed me in satan.

And the biggest Point, this item surely is in the "very very super rare" Pool.
1hour + 2hour restarting got me the item only 3 times, first i had the run the game ended with the bug, the 2nd time it was an XL floor i couldnt kill boss in 1 minute, 3rd time i had no Bomb for the Shovel.
And yes i tried it without the leaf , dozens of time, idk if the stomps get buffed (didnt play ab much thats why i didnt unlocked him yet and i regret it), but its just to many stomps in to many stupid rooms, nerfing host/pyro litterly made this "challenge" broken hard in my Opinion. And thats just for unlocking a Character, i think i even unlocked Lost the Old way, which was less hard.

[Smakit]

I don't care if it stays as is. When I first got the time way back when, I did let it cheese a boss because it was new and neat. Now I hardly ever see it, but if I do I don't use to to sit there and wait. But I don't really care if people do. Having one ultra cheese item in the pool doesn't bother me.

If some lunatic wants to sit there and restart runs a thousand times to get it, then play a single run for a few hours, more power to them.

That said, if they do change it, I'm fine too. If they want to keep the functionality, I'd think they'd have to do something like have it recharge in the same room like candles so it can be used immediately, but last a limited time and then need to recharge (can alter how long it takes for balance).

That way it could still be a good item if you aren't great at dodging and need help with say mother's quick back and forth bullets or hush's beams or whatever.

If you limit it too much (like just a single charge in a room for a temporary time), then might as well redo it completely because there are loads of items like that already (horn/shield/cards/etc).

[ToxicBoo]

Almost every time I've found it, the game never really gave me anything that would synergise with it. To be able to really cheese a run with gnawed leaf requires a lot of luck to get it and something crazy like sac dagger or daddy long legs, which usually doesn't happen due to the sheer size of item pools, so I think its ok.

If your breaking the game often enough with gnawed leaf to think that its extremely OP, then you should buy a lottery ticket, because your really ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ lucky.

[Death Grips]

I think the last thing we need for the game right now is more item nerfs.

[HeraldOfOpera]

Originally posted by ⛧White⛧:

gnawed leaf exists so everyone, no matter skill level can eventually 100% the game.

Tainted Lost says hi.