How the hell are you actually meant to beat Greedier Mode?

[KliPeH]

 

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MAJOR GAME SPOILERS AHEAD

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I just beat Greedier Mode for the first time in over 550 hours of gameplay with Tainted Lilith, objectively the strongest character in this game. She has a good base statline, spawns with enough health, has an incredibly powerful attack that has good range, passes through walls, can be used to move items and generally to kill most enemies in 1-2 shots, tears that scale with upgrades and items, the ability to use red hearts, and doesn't rely on some stupid gimmick to be useful.

I have absolutely NO clue how you'd manage to beat this mode otherwise.

• You don't have enough time to fight the enemies in each wave. No one single character (except Tainted Lilith) can beat most waves fast enough before the already limited time passes, they simply don't have the DPS. The timer starts at 8 seconds between each wave, and devolves into 4 or 2 seconds. That's absolutely ridiculous. There's never enough time to kill everything before more enemies spawn, and the arena is not big enough to deal with all waves at once.
  
  
• You don't have enough money to power up properly and scale with the enemies in each floor. Every wave drops one coin less, and you further lose money (as well as health) if you press the spiked button to stop the already insanely fast timer. This means you get about 5-6 less items in total, items you would've otherwise gotten in regular Greed Mode.
  
  
• Due to a lack of money you have to choose between items focused on stats and ones focused on health. Choosing stats means you're never going to have enough health, which means Cursed Rooms and Devil Deals are out of the question. If you choose health, you never have enough firerate/damage to kill enemies fast enough before the next wave of enemies spawns. Catching up with your already limited health costs precious money, preventing you from purchasing items at times.
  
  
• Ultra Greed is a nightmare. He's got such ridiculously strong armor already, taking about 5-6 whole minutes to take down, then he gets an additional phase with nearly just as much health and attack patterns that are way more difficult to anticipate.

Look, I'd consider myself pretty good at the game by now, but I simply have no clue what combination of items could even save most characters from this mode. Am I missing anything? No matter how good you are or which character you're playing you will always be overwhelmed by the continuous waves of mobs, and always lack either in health or DPS to make any significant progress in any direction.

Even if you manage to survive the mode itself, the end boss is way too powerful. If you don't have the DPS to kill the coins, deal with the minions, or take his armor down fast enough, you're simply done for. What do you even do at this point?

[BreakMan]

well... I did it with the lost and tainted lost without gamebreaking ♥♥♥♥ so I guess you just have to learn

[Danizk0]

Originally posted by 󠀡󠀡󠀡󠀡⁣　KliPeH:

I just beat Greedier Mode for the first time in over 550 hours of gameplay

Yeah, greedier is bad, but... come on. It's not THAT bad.

Originally posted by 󠀡󠀡󠀡󠀡⁣　KliPeH:

You don't have enough time to fight the enemies in each wave. No one single character (except Tainted Lilith) can beat most waves fast enough before the already limited time passes.

Obviously you're not going to be able to defeat all enemies after they spawn, it's a test of your ability to dodge multiple things at once. Press the button if you're starting to get overwhelmed. If you have invincibility frames, you can even touch it for free.

Originally posted by 󠀡󠀡󠀡󠀡⁣　KliPeH:

Every wave drops one coin less, and you further lose money (as well as health) if you press the spiked button

Money loss from button presses is negligible, you're only going to miss out on 1 penny if you press it. Feel free to pause during regular waves and don't be afraid to push the button if the first boss is tough.

Originally posted by 󠀡󠀡󠀡󠀡⁣　KliPeH:

Due to a lack of money you have to choose between items focused on stats and ones focused on health

Stats >>> health. You don't need health if you can kill everything before it hurts you. Buy soul hearts instead of health ups, you'll get some red health from silver item rooms anyway.

Originally posted by 󠀡󠀡󠀡󠀡⁣　KliPeH:

Then he gets an additional phase with nearly just as much health and attack patterns that are way more difficult to anticipate.

The second phase is actually much easier than the first one. Ultra Greedier is very predictable, try to look at his patterns next time you get to him. He only has ~4 attacks.


I recommend restarting until you get a dps upgrade in the first silver item/curse room. Greedier is a dumb gamemode, but it's not nearly as hard as it may initially seem.

[Eprico]

I think you just need to clear the waves faster, I normally don't have any issues even on the first floor. Sometimes you'll get overwhelmed but you can always just press the button. Also there are so many characters that will tear through the waves on floor one, plus on all the other characters all it takes is one good damage up in the first item room and you're set. I feel like you've maybe just had a couple of bad runs? Also tainted Judas and tainted Samson are a lot stronger than tainted Lilith imo

[guts' theme (Cut & Looped)]

Get lucky.

[Calamity Heart]

You reroll until you start with a good item in your free treasure room or curse room, and hope the run just snowballs from there. That's all there is to it, really, if you're not blessed with having easy enough waves on the first floor.

Originally posted by 󠀡󠀡󠀡󠀡⁣　KliPeH:

• You don't have enough time to fight the enemies in each wave. No one single character (except Tainted Lilith) can beat most waves fast enough before the already limited time passes, they simply don't have the DPS. The timer starts at 8 seconds between each wave, and devolves into 4 or 2 seconds. That's absolutely ridiculous. There's never enough time to kill everything before more enemies spawn, and the arena is not big enough to deal with all waves at once.

Just kill things. Anything in front of you, and as many things as you can. Try to prioritize the enemies that keep you on the move so you can position yourself better for the less aggressive enemies. Don't worry about beating the timer between waves. You won't. Thinking at all about the timer will do nothing but frustrate you. Just kill the enemies as they come.

Originally posted by 󠀡󠀡󠀡󠀡⁣　KliPeH:

• You don't have enough money to power up properly and scale with the enemies in each floor. Every wave drops one coin less, and you further lose money (as well as health) if you press the spiked button to stop the already insanely fast timer. This means you get about 5-6 less items in total, items you would've otherwise gotten in regular Greed Mode.

This is where luck comes into play. There's more ways to potentially get money than just the coins that drop from waves. Blow up machines, beggars, and nickel keepers, open any accessible chests you can, check your curse room if you're able. Don't press the button to stop waves, because it's never worth it. And again, just hope RNG is in your favor and you get good items to clear the room better.

Originally posted by 󠀡󠀡󠀡󠀡⁣　KliPeH:

• Due to a lack of money you have to choose between items focused on stats and ones focused on health. Choosing stats means you're never going to have enough health, which means Cursed Rooms and Devil Deals are out of the question. If you choose health, you never have enough firerate/damage to kill enemies fast enough before the next wave of enemies spawns. Catching up with your already limited health costs precious money, preventing you from purchasing items at times.

It's not too hard a choice; always choose stats over health early on if you have the option. Stacking your stats will eventually make health a non-issue, because more things will die without having a chance to hurt you. No amount of stacked health will make up for low stats. Consider not even going into your first-floor devil room. If you completely clear the first floor, and then not go through the open devil room door, then the final room on the second floor will be an angel room, guaranteed. Items in those rooms don't cost health, are free, and can potentially be good enough to make a run. And if you manage to get a game-winning run early enough, then you can bulk up on health to make Ultra Greed less stressful in the end.

Originally posted by 󠀡󠀡󠀡󠀡⁣　KliPeH:

• Ultra Greed is a nightmare. He's got such ridiculously strong armor already, taking about 5-6 whole minutes to take down, then he gets an additional phase with nearly just as much health and attack patterns that are way more difficult to anticipate.

Ultra Greed is not a fun fight at all, which makes it all the more important that you go into it as strong as possible from previous floors. I find Phase 2 easier than Phase 1, though. Just hug the wall and move away when he jumps, kill bombs that are close to you and let ones that are close to him explode and hurt him, don't stand directly in front of the door lasers. The fight looks hectic, but it's really not. Not after all the times I've done it, anyway.

It all pretty much depends on you having a good start and running into good items. Isaac doesn't really care how good at the game you are or how many hours you've sunken into it. Every run is ultimately defined by the items you find.

[KliPeH]

Originally posted by Ohayou:

well... I did it with the lost and tainted lost without gamebreaking ♥♥♥♥ so I guess you just have to learn

Thank you for contributing absolutely nothing of value to this discussion.

Originally posted by Danizk0:

Yeah, greedier is bad, but... come on. It's not THAT bad.

I have tried playing the mode a couple times in the past and then never again. Had I known what possible way I could beat it with the pre-Repentance characters I would've not posted this thread. Now that I have beaten it once with a very powerful character I don't see how any other could even compare to the damage Tainted Lilith can output. Azazel used to be really good but since the Brimstone nerf he hasn't been nearly as useful.

I don't see how a character firing regular tears can even finish the first couple of floors without a huge lack in health or practically no damage/firerate items due to all the healing/health ups required to keep yourself alive.

Originally posted by Danizk0:

Obviously you're not going to be able to defeat all enemies after they spawn, it's a test of your ability to dodge multiple things at once. Press the button if you're starting to get overwhelmed. [...]

Money loss from button presses is negligible, you're only going to miss out on 3 pennies if you pause after each wave. Feel free to pause during regular waves and don't be afraid to push the button if the first boss is tough.

Firstly, there are 8 waves and pausing between each wave takes away one coin if I understand the Greedier Mode mechanics correctly; how am I losing only 3 pennies by doing this? Besides, 3 pennies is already significant (if you do this every floor), as you're only getting 12 from regular mob waves and then some from the bosses. Then, you barely have enough to get an item and a key for a second item, where is the money to heal yourself up coming from? How will you be able to continue pressing the button? Are you expected to flawlessly beat every single wave?

Originally posted by Danizk0:

Stats >>> health. You don't need health if you can kill everything before it hurts you. Buy soul hearts instead of health ups, you'll get some red health from silver item rooms anyway.

Soul hearts are not always available, and when they are they cost 5 pennies. If you buy one you may not be able to purchase an item (especially if you've been pressing button and haven't managed to accumulate enough wealth due to the lesser payout), or may have one less key at your disposal. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the assumption your priority would actually be getting items to power up instead of spending money in a desperate attempt to keep yourself alive (later floors are practically impossible to beat without tear/damage ups).

[Man of Culture]

Well you SHOULD get enough cash to get at least one item from the shop plus a key or bomb every floor so you get 1 free item, 1 key item, and at least one item from the shop. If you get bombs or additional keys you can check for secret rooms to get more items or money, just bombing statues can net you more cash to get more items. Or see if you can get a sale for a 7 cent item. That alone can boost you if you get a decent string of items in that slot.

Honestly if I'm still sitting at base damage and almost no tear ups by the third floor I'm restarting because at that point the waves will just get crazy and you'll either be worn down or you'll get bored.

[Match]

Basically you have to beat it the way everyone who says "git gud" did it:

1-hold R like an idiot until you get a good starting item
2-hold R like an idiot until you get Humbling Bundle / Steam Sale on the shop,
or
3-hold R like an idiot until you get a 7c stat upgrade in the shop.

[Man of Culture]

Originally posted by Matute:

Basically you have to beat it the way everyone who says "git gud" did it:

1-hold R like an idiot until you get a good starting item
2-hold R like an idiot until you get Humbling Bundle / Steam Sale on the shop,
or
3-hold R like an idiot until you get a 7c stat upgrade in the shop.

Well holding R until you get damage isn't cheesing it because you still have to get through the rest of the floors. It's just pointless to start for some folks because you CAN get into dry spells and not have damage and in this mode it's not like normal mode where you can clear each room and ONLY have to deal with that room. Greed mode you have to deal with a room, then if you can't deal with that room another is thrown at you, and then another, and another, and another. So holding R here shouldn't be looked upon like you're being an idiot. It's just so you're not wasting your time. If my initial shop doesn't have any damage ups or at least good tears up items I'm restarting.

And yes. Everyone who says to 'git gud', which there aren't any in this thread mind you, probably did that because I don't care how good you are at some point you're going to not be able to handle all the enemies the game throws at you without decent items at some point. No need to be hostile about it.

[Amble]

You have got to be exaggerating here or doing something really wrong. Greedier Mode is pretty stupid but I've had no issues beating it on many of the new characters.

Most of it comes down to getting a good devil/angel room item that lets you keep up, either the devil deal on the first floor if you have red hearts to take stuff, or skipping it for a guaranteed angel deal on the next floor. Any average tears or damage item should allow you to survive the first two floors just fine and get the deals going so feel free to hold R for a minute or two for a decent starting item or keys in the curse room.

Once your damage is capable of handling the rest of the floors prioritize HP ups if there's no spirit hearts, if there is a spirit heart for sale stack up on a bunch of them. It's a lot more valuable than yet another damage upgrade towards the end, especially since Ultra Greed has boss armor.

As for Ultra Greed, there's a trick to the second phase that makes it a cakewalk. Just move between the corners of the room in a clockwise motion, moving to the next corner every time you see him jump at you, while firing away at him of course. This will result in him rarely firing anything at you and you being safe from the brimstone doors, 95% of the time he'll just keep jumping. Sometimes the rhythm will be broken if he goes to pick up coins on the floor, but it's not too hard to get him back into it.

[Solaires]

Well not sure about Repentance but before you required to pay into the machine on Greed to get Hard Mode. Well going further gives you the Mantle for The Lost this helps The Lost a lot. In regards for all character's the host hat and pyromaniac are your best friend. IF you get one of these bombs won't hurt you which is great against the Ultra Greed since his pennies won't hurt you. Also great on waves with follow bombs. Just need to be careful of the beams coming out of the walls and you should try maybe staying as far away as possible. If you don't like your items in the chest room you can always press R until you have something reasonable to work with. The first floor you may need to learn to dodge everything a bit more. Sometimes these floors might give more hassle with obstacles in the way like rocks or pots but it's just best to be careful not to get yourself cornered while avoiding things.With The Lost you can always go into another room and return to the room to refresh your mantle between the buttons

An exploit that litterally made Greed mode easy (not sure if you can do it now from posts I read on some changes)

You may be able to use the dice to change your coins into items if you kept them on the floor. In this case those coins can become chest to open in which you can open to gain more items on the floor which you can keep doing. Some of the gold chests may even contain power ups. however your most likely going to be able to get max coins keys and bombs pretty easy and along with that the ability to get a lot of power ups until it only starts dropping powerups. Also if your lucky to get a steam sale and the item to duplicate all the items you could duplicate a steam sale to to have free shops. Like someone stated which I believe this was something they might have changed in Repentance by one of the posts I read recently so you may not be able to do it anymore.

[HeraldOfOpera]

Originally posted by Solaires:

Well not sure about Repentance but before you required to pay into the machine on Greed to get Hard Mode. Well going further gives you the Mantle for The Lost this helps The Lost a lot. In regards for all character's the host hat and pyromaniac are your best friend. IF you get one of these bombs won't hurt you which is great against the Ultra Greed since his pennies won't hurt you. Also great on waves with follow bombs. Just need to be careful of the beams coming out of the walls and you should try maybe staying as far away as possible. If you don't like your items in the chest room you can always press R until you have something reasonable to work with. The first floor you may need to learn to dodge everything a bit more. Sometimes these floors might give more hassle with obstacles in the way like rocks or pots but it's just best to be careful not to get yourself cornered while avoiding things.With The Lost you can always go into another room and return to the room to refresh your mantle.

An exploit that litterally made Greed mode easy (not sure if you can do it now from posts I read on some changes)

You may be able to use the dice to change your coins into items if you kept them on the floor. In this case those coins can become chest to open in which you can open to gain more items on the floor which you can keep doing. Some of the gold chests may even contain power ups. however your most likely going to be able to get max coins keys and bombs pretty easy and along with that the ability to get a lot of power ups until it only starts dropping powerups. Also if your lucky to get a steam sale and the item to duplicate all the items you could duplicate a steam sale to to have free shops. I believe this was something they might have changed in Repentance by one of the posts I read recently so you may not be able to do it anymore.

In addition to Steam Sale now being multiplicative instead of additive, rock waves no longer count as explosions.

[Imposter]

It can take some practice, and with enough practice, through some possible game over's, you can unlock newer items and possibly get better items the next time around.

Don't exclusively stick to Greedier try the the story mode and unlock some stuff, then come back to Greedier mode. The shuffle of items will also be better(not always though).

[Danizk0]

Originally posted by 󠀡󠀡󠀡󠀡⁣　KliPeH:

Firstly, there are 8 waves and pausing between each wave takes away one coin if I understand the Greedier Mode mechanics correctly; how am I losing only 3 pennies by doing this?

Yes, I haven't looked into greed mode mechanics before replying to this thread and I made a mistake. I thought that you can't get less than 1 penny per wave, but that's not true. If you press the button after each wave, you'll only get 3 pennies before the boss fights. This doesn't really change anything though, since you wouldn't have enough health to do that anyway. Like I said, pause the waves if you feel overwhelmed.

Originally posted by 󠀡󠀡󠀡󠀡⁣　KliPeH:

Soul hearts are not always available, and when they are they cost 5 pennies. If you buy one you may not be able to purchase an item, or may have one less key at your disposal.

One item is equal to 3 soul heats. If you're on death's door, you should obviously take the health even if there is a damage up ready to be bought. Don't hoard keys, there's always going to be at least one in the shop, and it might be on sale. If keys on your floor cost 3c and there's nothing better to buy, you can take an additional one for the next floor, but if that's not the case, leave it and buy it on the next floor.

On the last floor, spend your remaining money on soul hearts if you're low on health or items if you're not confident in your dps.

[Solaires]

Originally posted by HeraldOfOpera:

Originally posted by Solaires:

Well not sure about Repentance but before you required to pay into the machine on Greed to get Hard Mode. Well going further gives you the Mantle for The Lost this helps The Lost a lot. In regards for all character's the host hat and pyromaniac are your best friend. IF you get one of these bombs won't hurt you which is great against the Ultra Greed since his pennies won't hurt you. Also great on waves with follow bombs. Just need to be careful of the beams coming out of the walls and you should try maybe staying as far away as possible. If you don't like your items in the chest room you can always press R until you have something reasonable to work with. The first floor you may need to learn to dodge everything a bit more. Sometimes these floors might give more hassle with obstacles in the way like rocks or pots but it's just best to be careful not to get yourself cornered while avoiding things.With The Lost you can always go into another room and return to the room to refresh your mantle.

An exploit that litterally made Greed mode easy (not sure if you can do it now from posts I read on some changes)

You may be able to use the dice to change your coins into items if you kept them on the floor. In this case those coins can become chest to open in which you can open to gain more items on the floor which you can keep doing. Some of the gold chests may even contain power ups. however your most likely going to be able to get max coins keys and bombs pretty easy and along with that the ability to get a lot of power ups until it only starts dropping powerups. Also if your lucky to get a steam sale and the item to duplicate all the items you could duplicate a steam sale to to have free shops. I believe this was something they might have changed in Repentance by one of the posts I read recently so you may not be able to do it anymore.

In addition to Steam Sale now being multiplicative instead of additive, rock waves no longer count as explosions.

So are the pennies now not considered the same damage against host hat and pyromaniac? forgot about rockwave being able to deflected by them.