Assault Rifles OP? Opinions Please.

[Maverik770]

As the title says. I'm not very far into the game. I just cleared the GMS Compound. I'm mainly a Melee/Psionics build and used a Sledgehammer + Psionics to clear out the whole GMS Compound with only minor issues on those damned Sentry Bots on the 2nd floor.

From the Raiders on the 3rd floor I found my first couple of Assault Rifles. I keep my Firearms skill relatively high as well so I always have non-Psi reliant ranged damage available when neeeded. So I had been using either a 7.62 Hawker pistol or Jaguar SMG in my 2nd weapon slot and my sledgehammer in my 1st weapon slot. Since I had enough Firearms and Strength to equip the Assault rifle, I switched out my 7.62 Jaguar for it immediately.

Holy F'ing crap is this Assault Rifle powerful! But what bothers me is that it only takes 14 AP to fire a single shot which can do just as much damage, if not more than my sledge hammer which requires 25 AP to swing once. I also have a .44 Hammerer pistol which does massive damage but also requires like 26 AP to fire once.

So my concern and question to everyone is, why are Assault Rifles only 14 AP to fire? Doesn't that seem really OP? My 7.62 Jaguar SMG takes 13 AP to fire and can't even begin to compare in damage. My sledge hammer does comparative damage but at 25 AP I can only swing it twice per turn if I don't do any other actions. Conversely I can fire the Assault Rifle THREE times for way more total damage AND still have AP left to consume a healthy hypo, move further, use a low cost PSI ability or Feat, etc.

Does this somehow balance out better as I keep playing or are Assault Rifles really just that good? For how well balanced everything has been up to this point, I'm a bit disappointed if Assault Rifles are this good because it basically makes using anything else inferior and simply a player choice that will only make things harder for you.

I hope someone with more experience later in the game can shed some light on why other weapons are viable comapred to this Assault Rifle? I really enjoy hitting stuff with my sledge but it feels utterly pointless, almost like I'm handicapping myself by not using the Assault Rifle I have when it's only 14 AP per attack.

[OnlyOffensive]

Assault rifles do very poor against energy shields and most of armor which have bullet threshhold. Main source of its being good is burst/full auto, which is close combat abilities with alot to invest in terms of feats/upgrages to do well. Most of builds, that done with a litle thinking/synergy usually performs well. Once you encounter heavy armored targets, singe bullets wouldnt be much threat, and unlike crossbows or pistols haven't alot of crit multiplier or crit chance.

[Maverik770]

引用自 OnlyOffensive：

Assault rifles do very poor against energy shields and most of armor which have bullet threshhold. Main source of its being good is burst/full auto, which is close combat abilities with alot to invest in terms of feats/upgrages to do well. Most of builds, that done with a litle thinking/synergy usually performs well.

I have been using the Assault Rifle for a bit now and I can already see the flaws showing through the cracks, which made me happy. I've learned that it's low end damage is much lower than most melee weapons. Which makes firing it a bit of a gamble because it could do 30-40+ damage or it may end up only doing like 12. Where as my sledge hammer, as you pointed out, is not dulled by Tactical Vests or Energy Shields nearly as much. Plus I thought I had a ton of 8.62 ammo for it but boy do you burn through bullets quick.

So, yes, I am starting to see that the Assault Rifle is not the end all, be all. Everything is situational and that is awesome. God I'm loving this game.

[OnlyOffensive]

Sledgehammer has ALOT of benefits like stuns, 10% damage for every strengh above 8 ( which is HUGE ), completely ignoring mechanical threshold ( which is huge too ) Very low impact, which means its VERY GOOD against energy shields, also it has good perks like breaking ribs, weaponsmith etc while AR dont have specific feats to cover AR specifically.
This game is not about raw damage of some random weapon, there is alot more to any speciality.

[Maverik770]

引用自 OnlyOffensive：

Sledgehammer has ALOT of benefits like stuns, 10% damage for every strengh above 8 ( which is HUGE ), completely ignoring mechanical threshold ( which is huge too ) Very low impact, which means its VERY GOOD against energy shields, also it has good perks like breaking ribs, weaponsmith etc while AR dont have specific feats to cover AR specifically.
This game is not about raw damage of some random weapon, there is alot more to any speciality.

You are 100% correct and this is becoming very obvious the more I use the Assault Rifle in different situations. What is the weaponsmith perk you speak of? I haven't seen that yet. And breaking ribs? Is that a Feat or a possible condition caused by just using the Sledgehammer on attacks?

[OnlyOffensive]

引用自 Maverik770：

引用自 OnlyOffensive：

Sledgehammer has ALOT of benefits like stuns, 10% damage for every strengh above 8 ( which is HUGE ), completely ignoring mechanical threshold ( which is huge too ) Very low impact, which means its VERY GOOD against energy shields, also it has good perks like breaking ribs, weaponsmith etc while AR dont have specific feats to cover AR specifically.
This game is not about raw damage of some random weapon, there is alot more to any speciality.

You are 100% correct and this is becoming very obvious the more I use the Assault Rifle in different situations. What is the weaponsmith perk you speak of? I haven't seen that yet. And breaking ribs? Is that a Feat or a possible condition caused by just using the Sledgehammer on attacks?

Weaponsmith adds 5% crit chance to crafted sledgehammers, i personally dont really favor crafting feats, but this one is cool.
Also you can empower sledgehammer with electric modifier which is even more HUGE :) And as far as i know you cant improve AR damage besides gun nuts perk and better quality ( well stuff like supressor, and other upgrades add better utility but not damage as far as i concern ) So a little tinkering and feating balancing everything and might even be better, also you should check critical damage multiplier, crit chance etc, the game is usually balace big damage weapons and lower that the last have alot of pros like huge crit chance or crit multiplier or penalties/bonuses for precision.

[OnlyOffensive]

引用自 Maverik770：

And breaking ribs? Is that a Feat or a possible condition caused by just using the Sledgehammer on attacks?

Bone Breaker
Critical hits from your blunt melee attacks break ribs if they deal at least 4% of target's maximal health through mechanical damage. Targets with broken ribs receive additional 25% mechanical damage from all sources.

This effect lasts 3 turns and stacks up to 2 times. Only works on targets that actually have ribs.

Id say +50% damage sounds good to me.

[Maverik770]

Holy crap both of those Feats sound amazing. My crafting skills are awful bad though because I've dumped all of my Skill pts into Melee, Firearms, Psionics, Lockpicking and Hacking. I'm surprised I haven't seen Bone Breaker as an available Feat on level up yet. It must still be higher than where I'm at currently. Thank you for the wonderful info.

[OnlyOffensive]

引用自 Maverik770：

Holy crap both of those Feats sound amazing. My crafting skills are awful bad though because I've dumped all of my Skill pts into Melee, Firearms, Psionics, Lockpicking and Hacking. I'm surprised I haven't seen Bone Breaker as an available Feat on level up yet. It must still be higher than where I'm at currently. Thank you for the wonderful info. :8bitheart:

Yea np, if you dont know there is a button in feats list to show all feats, there you can check theirs requirements and plan for the future of your build. Bone breaker req is 7 str 45 melee, pretty low, should be avaible around level 7-8. Also if you hitted Junkyard make sure to check vendor Len, he has "Lifting belt" that buff sledgehammers, reducing AP cost by 5, also good idea to use adrenals to get temporary AP and 2 str, which will make sledgehammer build devastating in short skirmishes.

[Hazard]

Assault rifles are very straightforward to use, especially if combined with metal armor/good anti-rifle vest, and AFAIK with burst fire they have the highest potential damage output per turn when you have most of the critical feats.

That said, you have to remember that pistol and SMG AP costs are based on your Dexterity, so if your Dex is low enough to not provide any boosts, ARs will seem plain better. A high dex SMG build with the Spec Ops feat can fire a stupid amount of bullets per turn, for example, a lot more than ARs.

[OnlyOffensive]

yea, as i said alot of feats/crafting can make almost any weapon build devastating. Spec-ops for SMGs, special tactics for crossbows are like turning point for those builds and thats when they just begin... :)

[Maverik770]

引用自 Hazard：

Assault rifles are very straightforward to use, especially if combined with metal armor/good anti-rifle vest, and AFAIK with burst fire they have the highest potential damage output per turn when you have most of the critical feats.

That said, you have to remember that pistol and SMG AP costs are based on your Dexterity, so if your Dex is low enough to not provide any boosts, ARs will seem plain better. A high dex SMG build with the Spec Ops feat can fire a stupid amount of bullets per turn, for example, a lot more than ARs.

That is very interesting, thank you. I had forgotten about Dex altering the AP cost of small firearms and yes, my Dex is pretty low, only 5 or 6, so I'm not seeing those bonuses. Which explains why for my build the Assault Rifle seems like the obvious choice. Very useful info. Clearly Assault Rifles are not OP overall as I had originally worried.

[Maverik770]

引用自 OnlyOffensive：

引用自 Maverik770：

Holy crap both of those Feats sound amazing. My crafting skills are awful bad though because I've dumped all of my Skill pts into Melee, Firearms, Psionics, Lockpicking and Hacking. I'm surprised I haven't seen Bone Breaker as an available Feat on level up yet. It must still be higher than where I'm at currently. Thank you for the wonderful info.

Yea np, if you dont know there is a button in feats list to show all feats, there you can check theirs requirements and plan for the future of your build. Bone breaker req is 7 str 45 melee, pretty low, should be avaible around level 7-8. Also if you hitted Junkyard make sure to check vendor Len, he has "Lifting belt" that buff sledgehammers, reducing AP cost by 5, also good idea to use adrenals to get temporary AP and 2 str, which will make sledgehammer build devastating in short skirmishes.

Ahhh, I'm gonna be eligible for Breaking Ribs Feat on my next level up then. That's very exciting, hehe. And I will definitely keep my eye out for that belt. Thanks for the tips!