(Spoiler) Evidence for the killer prior to the reveal

[EclecticFruit]

It's been a couple months since I played the game, but I still have this nagging question left from my experience with this game. What evidence is there to know that Gorgie killed Faith (or Nerissa, but let's not get into that right now) prior to the Crooked Man asking Bigby if he knows?

Right before the door opens, I remember hearing Gorgie say "Stop laughing at me", which one of the people who disposed of the body said, but that's circumstantial as hell. What tidbits have I missed/forgotten that led to knowing the killer's identity?

[[NeW]Spiked]

There's not much evidence tbh, as far as I remember. Like you say, there's nothing solid until Crooked Man points his finger at Georgie, and later when Georgie spills the beans (and his guts) at the Pudding and Pie. This all makes Bigby's claim that he already knows it was Georgie a little amazing, if you picked that option, but I guess he'd be working from:

- Georgie's line, which is a little less circumstantial since he says 'I told you before, stop laughing'; so it's not just that he uses the same words, it's the fact that he refers to saying it to Jersey previously, placing him at the scene of the disposal of Lily's body.

- If (ha, who didn't?) you gave money to 'Faith' in the first scene, you find the exact same amount in Georgie's safe at the Pudding and Pie, making him the most recent person we know of to have seen 'Faith' the night of her death.

- He has access to the appointment book and so would know where (and presumably when, though screenshots show no times in the book) Lily would be meeting Crane.

- He's their pimp, so if they were getting out of line you'd expect him to be the one to mete out the punishment.

[EclecticFruit]

Originally posted by Spiked:

This all makes Bigby's claim that he already knows it was Georgie a little amazing, if you picked that option, but I guess he'd be working from:

Yeah, I was pretty surprised that I was supposed to have it figured already. I'd fingered the pimp to Snow, but at the time I was supposed to "know" who it was, I was thinking to myself, "Oops, I must have missed something."

Originally posted by Spiked:

- If (ha, who didn't?) you gave money to 'Faith' in the first scene, you find the exact same amount in Georgie's safe at the Pudding and Pie, making him the most recent person we know of to have seen 'Faith' the night of her death.

I had forgotten that! Cheers. At least that's something to go on.

Overall I feel a bit cheated if there wasn't really evidence to collect and know prior to making Gorgie himself tell me. I wanted to role play as bloodhound!Bigby. That's why I liked the part of deciphering the crime scene at the Open Arms Motel so much.

[GrizBe]

Off the top of my head, one other thing.... at the murder scene, we can find a Huff and Puff cigerette in the ashtray. We're told numerous times that few people smoke them.. yet... At the club, the cigerette machine has Huff and Puffs stocked. If its not a popular brand, why stock it unless someone at the club smokes them?

Been a while since I played through the game, would have to play it again to remember everything.

[EclecticFruit]

Originally posted by GrizBe:

Off the top of my head, one other thing.... at the murder scene, we can find a Huff and Puff cigerette in the ashtray. We're told numerous times that few people smoke them.. yet... At the club, the cigerette machine has Huff and Puffs stocked. If its not a popular brand, why stock it unless someone at the club smokes them?

Been a while since I played through the game, would have to play it again to remember everything.

Does Bigby witness Geogie smoke? I don't remember him smoking at any point. I should probably play it over myself, see if anything leaps out at me... Perhaps later when I have more time.

Edit: appreciate the lead, though, I'll keep an eye on the cigs when I start over.

[GrizBe]

I initially though the cigerete pointed to Vivian. We do see her smoking outside of the club when we first pull up, and Georgie can tell us that she runs the place for him. Again.. points to someone at the club smoking them... and we know its not Nerissa, as she pulls a box of Shorette's from her bag. The other brand that the club stocks.

But that still all points back to someone at the club having done it since we know Crane doesn't smoke, and at the time he and Lily are the only ones we know for sure were at the crime scene.

edit: Oh, of course talking about the room in the motel murder scene incase there's any confussion.

[|НИКИТИШНА|]

я считаю так, волк норм игра мне нравится , а кто считает иначе я их попрощу сойти с этой планеты

[chinesse warrior]

Georgie smoked them. Crooked man is 'Kinda' not guilty. It WAS Georgie who murdered them his way. So I suggest arresting Crook. I felt bad hearing Nerissa Lied. But hey I'm replaying the game as a Big Bad Wolf. Instead arresting Crook.

Originally posted by GrizBe:

Off the top of my head, one other thing.... at the murder scene, we can find a Huff and Puff cigerette in the ashtray. We're told numerous times that few people smoke them.. yet... At the club, the cigerette machine has Huff and Puffs stocked. If its not a popular brand, why stock it unless someone at the club smokes them?

Been a while since I played through the game, would have to play it again to remember everything.

[Chronie]

People want to believe that georgie murdered them however apart from visual identification of the bodies which can be glamored there is no other proof. Faith's identity was not confirmed when Dr Swineheart examined the body and Lily's body was disposed of so you can't check. This means while there is strong evidence to suggest they were involved with their disappearance but they still might be alive. There are also some other hints that it isn't what it seems like from greenleaf and the mirror not showing the dead body. Since very few people actually pick up on this it was a great way to escape and it would seem but we can't get solid evidence against The Crooked Man for his crimes. This series of events allowed him to take the fall for what was happening but whether he was or Bloody Mary was in charge of the illegal operations is uncertain.

[GrizBe]

Erm.. except we 100% know for sure that Lily is dead. Thats her body on the slab that you examine. And all Swineheart said about Faith was that 'He wanted toconduct further tests'. That could be anything from a glamour messing with it as some people suspect, to the time of death not being in line with what we know about when bigby met her.. IE, was killed earlier which puts it in line with the other theory.

You can ask the mirror about Lily too, and it gives the 'my lips are sealed line', even when we know 100% she's downstairs on the slab.

And pretty much everyone fingures Crooked Man as the one they're in debt to, so its pretty much certain he was running things.

[Chronie]

When you have the power to change the appearance of something how can you be certain who it is? Visual tests won't work like people think so you need to find other methods to identify them like the broach from Lily and in a desperate situation people might use that to fake their death. So if we assume Ichabod Crane had helped their escape by being one of those that tampered with the evidence not to mention had access to glamours and was framed for the death of Lily then there are a lot of ways to escape.

People also assume that the dead body is in fact a fable it is possible to do the same thing on mundies. There are other people in the world think outside the box and medical records of fables like normal people are not always up to date. Dental records may also be useless or not done as after hundreds of years fables all seem to have their teeth another problem for identification. This isn't as simple as some people think to verify people when you only have a severed head and only a look at the body before it is gone. Disguises aren't just magic either it would be hard enough knowing with 100% certainty even without glamours. There isn't even good modern pictures of the fables as you rely on old books to identify them.

Crime bosses like the crooked man are hard enough to get evidence against and in the end who's statement was it that ends him? The evidence doesn't point to The Crooked Man it points to Bloody Mary the person that does the dirty work who can be used as a scapegoat as all the other business is still legal. The ribbons which were made can no longer be used as evidence as the people are dead or ribbons neutralised and every other occurance Bloody Mary was present doing the work when it came to the illegal operations not The Crooked Man.

Nerissa also says they had an escape plan before the ribbon spell was broken those lips weren't exactly sealed but that topic is a whole another can of worms.