*SPOILER* Question about Jack/Miranda fight

[Ghee Buttersnaps]

So I've looked online for a solution on how to open up one of the two dialogue options to squash the fight, but there is literally not a single definitive answer.

Can anybody help me stop the fight before I make one of them hate me?

Or, if I side with Jack, Miranda will give me the option to calm her down in her office, but then both of those options are also grayed out. Will I be able to come back at any time during the game once my Ren/Par bars are higher and get her to quit being so ♥♥♥♥y (apparently she doesn't want to be my friend just minutes after I help her rescue her sister... ♥♥♥♥♥!)

[DoubleD]

I think you need the Renegade option active? I can't remember. I sided with each of them on two playthroughs. If you don't get either option you needed to have done more proior to get that level up.

[Amon]

This is a one time use option. You cannot change your mind or return a more leveled state and then use the paragon/renegade options. If the options are greyed out then you can not select them now or ever. That ever part is the kicker. Your only option is the pick the choice you want to make., then reload a previous game before you began the loyalty mission that started fight and work on building your paragon/renaged point up to just over the last bar, (basically nearly full) then do the loyalty mission that starts the fight, then you can make the decision you wanted to make. You will go through this again with Tali and Legion, make sure you are maxed out in whatever road you took or you will be greyed out again

[Kenny32673]

You CAN side with one then speak to the other later (though you need to get your paragon/renegade pretty much maxed before doing so) and convince them.

So if for example you side with Jack you can later speak with Miranda to convince her you were right or were lying to Jack and regain her loyalty (and vice versa).

Note that if you were in a romance with either one and didn't choose them in the argument, even though you can regain their loyalty the romance is done.

The same applies for the Tali/Legion dispute.

[DoubleD]

MonkeySeeker you should write a guide if you have not already. Next question I have I am simply going to message you. ;)

[Dagon]

You need to be high enough renagade or paragon (doesnt matter which) in order not to lose their trust. If you loose their trust, theres a 90% chance they wont survive. I recomend u wait to do Jacks side mission LAST since the amount of Paragon/Renagade required is quite high... And the argument will NOT happen until you do Jacks side mission. (Btw Mirandas better cause jack looks like a tall boy were as mirandas got that nice ass <3)

[Kenny32673]

Publicado originalmente por Lord Zeref:

I recomend u wait to do Jacks side mission LAST since the amount of Paragon/Renagade required is quite high...

That's not actually how it works (I know I also said above about having it maxed but that was just as a general guide, and actually it's possible to have the paragon/renegade score maxed and STILL not have the option).

Whether a paragon/renegade option is available to you is based on percentages, by that I mean how many paragon/renegade points you have gained vs how many you could have possibly got up to that point.

There's an explaination of how it works here[forum.bioware.com] (including a quote of a dev post who tried explaining how the system worked)

But basically (and I'll use the example in the thread I linked) if for example you needed 70% of the possible points to open an option and you have 700 out of a possible 1000 up to that point then you get the option. However if you have 700 points out of a possible 1200 then you only have 58% and don't get the option.

Which means it's actually easier to unlock the option the earlier you do it not the later.

Publicado originalmente por Lord Zeref:

If you loose their trust, theres a 90% chance they wont survive.

It's entirely possible and quite easy to keep a non-loyal squadmate alive, there is nothing like a 90% chance they will die, it's just that non-loyal squadmates will be the first to die if you make the wrong choices.

Just don't use non-loyal squadmates for any assignments such as going through the vents, the fire team leader, second fire team leader (Miranda is an exception here since even non-loyal she literally can not die until the very final battle, so feel free to use her as the second fire team leader even if non-loyal, biotic barrier or crew escort.

Also don't take a non-loyal squadmate (even Miranda as this is where she CAN die) as one of the two you take to the final battle.

As long as the group's collective defense score is high enough even non-loyal squadmates will survive the "hold the line" part and therefore the mission itself.

[A Rumor]

I wait till late game (before getting the IFF) to do them so i have at leat 75% paragon or renagade and do that so i can settle them both at once. Same thing with Tali and Legion but alot easier on those 2

[Flugie]

Having a max renegade/paragon score from what I have seen is needed in order to make sure you calm the fight and don't make either one of them mad at you as long as you didn't anger them earlier on in the game. I'm not saying max renegade/paragon is a requirement but I have had it nearly completely full (say 90-95% or so) and the option was greyed out, loaded previous save before mission and went out and got full paragon and then played the mission and the option was available.

I have never seen the option available for using renegade or paragon earlier in the game even though Monkey seems to think it is possible, personally the game hasn't played out like that even though I did receive the full amount of paragon points or renegade points up to the moment.

For some renegade/paragon options I wouldn't doubt it is based upon the percentage of points you have received up until that point, however, with Jack/Miranda it appears much more likely you need to be maxed out. Just like if you skip ahead and try to do what would normally be a mission that would take place later on in the game the vast majority of renegade/paragon are greyed out so i'm guessing a specific number total is needed for certain situations.

[A Rumor]

Publicado originalmente por Buck Bundy:

Having a max renegade/paragon score from what I have seen is needed in order to make sure you calm the fight and don't make either one of them mad at you as long as you didn't anger them earlier on in the game. I'm not saying max renegade/paragon is a requirement but I have had it nearly completely full (say 90-95% or so) and the option was greyed out, loaded previous save before mission and went out and got full paragon and then played the mission and the option was available.

.

its 75% or higher to settle both of them at one time but 90% or higher is if you have to settle it later after you lost the loyity of one. They made this early in the game cause you would have to choose or you could just be smart about and and wait to do Jack or Miranda's last before getting th IFF

[Flugie]

Wonder when it changes over from 75% to 90% if that is indeed the case, never had the option earlier in the game even garnering 100% of the possible points in a large number of playthroughs. Maybe once you recruit a certain person or complete a specific mission?

[A Rumor]

Mass Effect 2 is a game that hasnt aged well for smooth gameplay, across 8 playthoughs, i have encoutered 100's of bugs, and i might be the case it does that for you. Grunt For Life!

[dadittm]

I've played through twice and never get the option. Now I want them both to die on the last mission. And percentage of loyalty? I've made sure to choose paragon every time and it doesn't work. IMO, This is just some random option and there is no formula for successful completion. I specifically played the second time to do this. Very disappointing.

[Carmac]

That's why I leave Jack's loyalty mission last to do before getting the IFF. That way I've managed to obtain enough para/rene points by then.

[Azirahael]

Publicado originalmente por Flugie:

Wonder when it changes over from 75% to 90% if that is indeed the case, never had the option earlier in the game even garnering 100% of the possible points in a large number of playthroughs. Maybe once you recruit a certain person or complete a specific mission?

There are character upgrades that give you like +60% paragon/renegade points.
Get that early in the game, and you'll max out pretty early.

[your.sheepy]

Well... At the time of original post we didn't know, but now we do.

The options are not unlocked by how full your bar is, but how many percentage of P/R points you've earned from the maps you have visited. A simple google will find you many discussions and how weird it is.

If you consistently choose every single P/R response possible, preferrably using a morale guide so that you don't miss too much, you can clear without problem. This is actually easier in the beginning, before you visit too many places and stretch your points thin. Importing a high morale save from ME1 helps a lot. The Legendary Edition is also said to have lowered the requirements of critical scenes like this one.

Of course these tips are too late for a mid game confrontation, those who are stuck will need to cheat with the console or a save editor to get the points needed.

Also, as stated by Kenny, non-loyal members does not necessary die, just make sure you don't make them do anything, and that the defending team is strong enough. Formula is well known, and I have done it too. Nothing magical.