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All the proper club actions do is open you up to talking to Morinth. Then talking to Morinth properly takes you to her apartment. Then passing the huge Charm/Intimidate check finally allows you to recruit her by killing Samara.
The actual *stuff* you do in the club, by itself, is *meaningless*. All you need to do is impress her enough for her to invite you over. This does not require picking a fight. Paragon or Renegade.
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Yeah there's several definitions of canon with Mass Effect. I like to describe them like this:
1)Base Canon - Typically Renegade with some Paragon. Used to form the main plot.
2)Full Canon - Typically Paragon with some Renegade. Used to illustrate the extent of 'another way'.
And then there's other alternate stuff along with these things.
So I was mostly talking about the Base canon, AKA what default story files pick up.
The Full Canon however is taking a Loyal Samara into ME3.
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Only ME2 cares about the percentage itself.
ME1 cares about outright numbers (aka Charm/Intimidate skilllines). This means that any option can open up if you play enough.
ME2 cares about percentage, compared to character level. This makes it the hardest to customize and have everything available to you. It urges you to go more pure Paragon or pure Renegade - though you never *have to*.
ME3 is a kind of mixture of both. There is a kind of percentage check of sorts, but it is regulated by the Reputation score which ultimately matters much more.
I enjoy ME3's the most, but it also makes Paragon/Renegade mechanics into pure RP - a redundancy in some players' opinions. ("Why not just have a Reputation meter then?")
If there's anything I've learned Swoby does not leave a single comment unchecked. Now enjoy the storm of text :P
I was incorrect, I was thinking about ME1's renegade system at the time. A simple mistake I haven't played the game in 3 years.
Last time i checked (and this was with the same shepherd on two different saves exactly one mission apart with a paragon shep to see divergance), you have to use segragated diagogue options. one runthrough, i spoke to the bartender, danced with a matron, and helped a journalist, got the paragon option to resist her gaze, and got the option to save her. On the parallel playthrugh, i spoke to the bartender, helped a journalist, and then punched a sexually aggressive turian. the option in that part was greyed out. Now i suppose it is possible that what you are saying is true, but from my experience it is not likely. Now say that I was borderline of what was allowed for a choice, and that one paragon/renegde speech option swayed my percentage, then yes that could mean that percentage is the only factor. I acknowledge that you may be correct, but my experiment points to this as being unlikely.
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Your definition of canon is unique and understandable, but some decisions are simply worse in EVERY way than others, that get chosen as a default
for example--
1) killing wrex on virmire (a straight up choice in genisis)
smart friend clan leader VS idiot enemy clan leader. (albeit with wreave it is possible to get a higher ems) if you could, why would you actually decide to kill wrex when you knew that he could be convinced to stand down?
2) saving/killing the council (another straight up choice in genisis)
respect of aliens, destiny ascention for the final battle, and a slightly higher likelyhood of talking down your virmire survivor VS pissed off aliens, no destiny ascention, and an untrusting council. i did chose to kill th council my first ME1 playthrough, and after seeing that i realized that saving them is the choice that dosen't exclusively hurt you later.
3) everything with grunt and samara
the default choice is that you never let grunt out of the tank, and you never recruit samara.
was there anybody who actually didn't let grunt out? I mean you go through a recruitment mission, expecting to get a squadmate, and you get a krogan in a tank in place of a squadmate. lets be reasonable. it is a way to lessen the experience for those who havent played the previous games.
4) not romancing anybody (Mass Effect 1&2)
no space sex? in the Mass Effect series, that is either a one time thing to see what happens, or a player mistake. you don't get to learn about the characters as much, and cmon... less liara... or for that matter less thane... around 87% of people romance SOMEBODY in me2 (according to bioware's website), and thats not including people staying loyal to their me1 love interest. this is a default choice... because you should have played the previous installments.
5) geth-quarian peace
the default choice is you giving legion to cerberus, not completing his loyalty mission, which is required mission if you wish to have peace in me3. without this, you have to chose between the geth or quarians, which hurts your ems, and kills off an entire race over what ended up being a resolvable conflict.
it seems like the default choices for any of the game's previous installments are meant to
punish you for not playing earlier games or buying their comic backstories.
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I agree completely on your opinion of the ME3 reputation system. it makes it possible for a renegade shepard to be reckless without being a ♥♥♥♥, while still not being limited in the RPG elements. it is a much better system.
That's kinda snarky of you.
This is how the Loyalty Mission works:
1)Do 3 things that impress Morinth in the club. This can even include some Paragon actions. What she wants to see is someone who takes action for what he wants - and this includes being a Paragon protecting others through force.
If you don't impress Morinth, the mission fails and you don't get Samara's Loyalty. I'd imagine only certain RP files would ever want something like this.
2)When she invites Shepard over, you need to impress her enough in conversation (I think 3 times but I'm not sure). Talking about Justicars will just annoy her. Sometimes you can talk about a touchy subject and Paragon/Renegade yourself into impressing her. The clues to what she likes is found earlier in the mission (the club and victim apartment parts).
If you don't impress Morinth here, the mission also fails.
3)If you've impressed her enough, she invites Shepard to her apartment. It is at this point that the big Paragon/Renegade check happens. It ONLY checks Para/Rene, NOT your previous specific actions. You need something crazy like 80%, so this check clearly is about being the strongest Paragon or Renegade you can be, without a more grey/'uncertain' Shepard. It's a test of how 'developed' your Shepard is in these ways - the Paragon being strong in his dedication to Samara's goal, and the Renegade being strong in his dedication to Shepard's own goal. Both showing resistance to mental intrusion.
If you resist, then you can choose between Samara and Morinth. If you don't, then Samara is there to step in and the game automatically has her live. You can imagine this taking place as Shepard's mind is still slightly foggy about Morinth.
In any case, you did enough at the club for the Loyalty mission to succeed. It's just that if you take Morinth, then the 'success' is purely for your Shepard - one that regards Morinth as more outright useful to him with her Domination power.
What likely happened was that, yes, you justtttt missed having enough points to resist her. It wasn't any specific action, but the Paragon/Renegade points. Amazing that it was so close for you!
Depends on if you're someone who thinks that Wrex deserves to be talked down and survive. Yes really. Some people see what Wrex does as glorified thuggery, and Wrex aiming a gun at Shepard in that way as a betrayal, regardless of any nice stuff seen in future games.
And while I personally think Wrex is much better to have live (and considering how often Shepard puts his gun towards others, I don't want to be a hypocrite), Bioware actually designs each Mass Effect as separate enough to each be the 'best place to start' (heh). So for most players statistically, they're not dealing with Wrex in ME3 but Wreav.
So the game is designed in that way. There is a lot of content on how much of a risk it is to help a Wreav-led krogan, and that's what so many players are exposed to - since they don't look up stuff online and just played ME3.
And that's why there's layers of canon. Sure for the trilogy (ME1-ME3) it may be more fair to say that Wrex living is the 'canon', but for ME2-ME3 it may not be, and ME3 it really wasn't until things like Citadel DLC bumped him up.
You make a mistake imo for believing 'best' to = 'canon'. ME3 makes a point of this, giving Shepard big nightmares about those he has lost. But why would have be having such nightmares about just Ashley/Kaidan? Well, the scene is more there for the 'Base Canon' Shepard, one who lost Ashley/Kaidan, Wrex, and several on the Suicide Mission. It's geared more towards that, at least at first (before ME3 characters force-die), then towards a Shepard that made sure almost everyone survived ME1-ME2.
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Given that you interact far more with the Council than you do with Alliance ships captains in the trilogy, Saving the Council is just the way to go for that, even if that means sacrificing Alliance resources. The whole Council business disappointed me though.
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I get what you're saying about Grunt and partially agree, but we have to look at Shepard. The basic story of him more involves him NOT trusting the alien, and being barely into cooperating with the alien for his greater fight against the Reapers.
He went for Okeer in the mission. The tank stands as a souvenir. Does that make a more 'fully story sense'? No, so that's why I kinda agree with you. But it actually also fits a Shepard that isn't curious about anything other than using (as) familiar (as possible) human resources to destroy the Reapers.
'Base Canon' isn't the extent of canon. It's just, like you said, what the story works with for those who haven't played previous games. Base Canon isn't there to entertain alternate choices by players, but to work with what Shepard more definitely did in the main plot. It isn't bad or good. It just is what the writers work with in fashioning most of their main storyline. Notice how it isn't Grunt that ME3 forces into your party temporarily no matter what, but James (Mars), Ashley/Kaidan (Mars), Liara (Palaven and Thessia), and EDI (Cronos). These are the 'Basic Canon' characters to be in Shepard's party - everyone else is more towards the 'Full Canon' and can have varying optional levels of participation in the story.. from cameos to temporary squadmates.
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The writers are actually often on record on intentionally regarding romance as an optional layer, a sidequest, to the story.
If there is a romance canon for the fact of romance itself existing, it is for what I'd call 'MainShepard' or 'MarketingShepard'. The form of Shepard more shown in trailers. This would be Ashley-Miranda-Liara.
At the same time, I'd consider the 'Full Canon' to be Liara-Liara-Liara. She is given the most content and focus overall, when all the trilogy's stuff is considered.
But to come back to my point, since romance itself is utterly optional, anything that relates to it is an optional layer that the writers insert in the game. So for this, Base Canon is something more like Nothing-Nothing-Nothing. Or maybe Ashley-Ashley-Ashley, but I'm not sure about that.
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The Geth can also die in the various forms of Destroy. So they kinda have a big target on their backs by the writers.
Shepard, the character, running into Legion only sees a smarter geth with a sniper rifle. It doesn't even really say anything. So for the, again, Base Canon, Legion is handed over as a research tool for Cerberus. You can call it dumb, but the Base Canon is written to be a bit dumb.
But also understandable. Shepard until that point had only DESTROYED Geth. Never spoke to them. Never even tries to understand them except maybe in some optional dialogue with Tali. This makes any dialogue with Legion to be an *extension* of Shepard's Journey, but not an essential part of it.
The Rannoch Arc does strain this with the Geth VI, I admit, the writers made sure to make the Geth VI be outright untrustworthy, resentful of organics, and still an enemy. There are MANY players (most players of ME3 were new players to the series, amazingly enough) who only meet the Geth VI and therefore only see this negative side of the Geth.
This is why I differentiate between 'Base' and 'Full'. Full is the full experience of understanding the story. Base is the bare essentials to carry on with. There are other canon forms that can lie somewhere in the middle.
Don't see the Base canon as an outright, automatic punishment. Everything done in it is understandable for that Shepard's story. I wouldn't trust the Geth VI either, and if peace was all hinged on me activating Legion.. wtf? The whole species and its near obliteration of the Quarians is only redeemed by one platform? When you think about it, that's relying a lot on Legion ;), and illustrates how very damaged and dangerous the Geth can be, and has been.
There are a lot of Mass Effect fans that outright hate the Geth, that hate Krogan, that hate pretty much anything one can be Paragon towards. This audience exists. To them, the 'Base Canon' treatment of these things is entirely welcome. They don't want to be exposed to these things more than they have to. They don't want to learn more about the Geth in order to sympathize with them. They don't want to learn more about characters in order to sympathize with them. To them, basic truths about these factions/species/characters prevent any sympathy in the first place.