Proper way of using elevators and rails?

[spike_mf]

Been playing this game for a while now and I can't figure out how to make elevators and rails practical. Since the dwarves have a tendency to hack just one square and then take of to do something else the time spent waiting for the elevator kind of eliminates the time you would've saved.
Pretty much same thing for rails, even though they are more effective then the elevators since you can have multiple carts.

Maybe I'm using them wrong, so if you have some suggestions on how to layout a proper logistic please let me know.

Although, two things I think would help the game (besides stop trying to make a totally automated AI, wich would give the devs the nobelprice) is
First: Let us manually assign jobs for the dwarves (would make more sence to the skills too), like this one prioritize making food, this one mining etc.

Second: The carts and elevators shoould transport items instead of the dwarves, if you think about it for a while you will see the benifits from this.

[spike_mf]

The biggest benefits from this to suggestions is that the path and task finding will be much easier to code and the dwarves won't get stuck, wander off or take ridicoulusly uneffective paths.

[smoothed]

The way the rails are now there pretty much useless. By the time you build one that area is mined out and they walk around the start of it. The elevators are very usefull, mine down then branch out.
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=378797026

[mikeydsc]

I stopped using either a couple builds ago since they are broken with the terrible AI. Even on large maps. Usually I just control 1 dwarf and mine an area quickly. Buy 1 mithril pick axe and equip it to the dwarf you are controlling, this way you can control what is being mined and once you have the magic collect spell you can mine it so much faster. Let the remaining dwarfs hunt fish and chop trees and collect that stuff. After I am finished in an area, I close it off to limit the path finding decisions the AI has to make to help speed it up some. The more open paths you have the more time is wasted with the searching for path symbol over their heads.

[spike_mf]

yepp, that's pretty much how I use them and it ends with all the dwarves just standing around wating even if there is a ladder and they only have to go one 'level', though putting the elevator above the stockpile was pretty clever :)

I'm must say that I find the rails more usefull, as long as they are in the top 'cave', otherwise the dwarves just walk above it.
and then i use alot of elevators, that gives me less time in elevators and more in carts and It seems like that is the less timeconsuming way, but since it hardly worth it anyhow I cheat by reducing the mana refill-time and just use the portal everywhere :P and that kind of sux.

[spike_mf]

Originally posted by mikeydsc:

That is what I do now, but I think it's sad that it has to be that way, would've been nice if the logistics really worked.
As I said earlier the game would benefit from the rails and elevators being changed to transport ores and stuff instead of the dwarves.
That way the devs could implement more funny stuff for building a complex transportsline, like bolean swithces: if, then, or, nor etc.
Or just add an ore-lift or something.

[ReneMiner]

my opinion: elevators are useful as long as they work even if they are a bottleneck.

2 things to avoid not to make the elevators stuck and to keep dwarves healthy:

-Do NEVER collect water using the elevator- even if have diving-helmets. Means, if you meet some underground-lake below your elevator-shaft do not open the shaft so the elevator ends in the water!
One dwarf in elevator will collect water and wear the diving-helmet while all others in elevator-cabin will drown.
Collect the water of the underground-lake before opening the shaft!

-Do not place forground-blocks/doors where some dwarf might stand to wait for the elevator- for obvious reason: dwarf inside cabin tries to place block where other dwarf is waiting - the system gets stuck until you cancel the placing-order.

For the rails:

use at least 6 to 7 carts per line. If very long rail-line (>50 blocks) have one cart per dwarf.
On very long lines - even if nothing/no intersections inbetween the rail-ends place 1 or 2 railroad-switches to divide the distance- some dwarves might jump out the cart sometimes- or ignore the rail-end and walk all the way along the line. So some switches inbetween to give them another chance to get a cart.

Upground-rail ? - not recommended - but can use it as a subway-system if you create the surface as a few smaller "floating islands" above the rail. Just have the "floating islands" side that points away from your stockpile higher than the side that points towards your base so dwarves will go down to use the subway.
Leave the "subway" 2 blocks high- no backwall there, not a real tunnel - so zombie-bosses & similar won't get stuck and can bring their coin closer to your base

[spike_mf]

I think you have to give me a screenshot of that one ReneMiner ;)

[mikeydsc]

If you want to use rail, only leave that mine level open and close all other mine layers with doors to force the dwarves to use the rail. If you mine every 3rd layer and place a rail on one layer, the other open layers above and below it need closed doors. It eliminates the pathing down to only 1 choice and speeds up the game alot.

[Father Ribs]

I usually run one elevator to max depth (30 sometime squares), then make my rail line there. Depending on size of map I will run four elevator shafts evenly spaces across the map from the rail line down, and then on the deeper maps run another elevatorl just under the previous elevators.

The key as mentioned to making them efficient is to not give dwarves choices.

- Close off corridors when you are done mining them.
- Take care to unselect isolated blocks that you marked for mining.
- (And this is a hard one) focus your efforts: mine a section, then chop wood, then go back to mining, etc.

Every target you give your dwarves, forces them to make choices. More choice means increasing the possibility they aren't going to do what you want them to do, and they take more time deciding what to do in the first place. It is amazing just how fast a team of dwarves can clear a double line of mine shafts versus having them run all over the map; it also allows you to make optimum use of the teleport spell.

[spike_mf]

yeah i'm guessing that is my biggest problem; having to much choices :P
But anyhow even with all these tips, I can't really see how rails and elevators are worth it, by the time everything is built I've already mined what I needed.
Until the transportsystem gets a major overhaul, I think I'll stick with the teleport :P

[Father Ribs]

They come into their own more as automating the areas you aren't personally attending (there's always that one or two dwarves who go off on their own...) I like elevators for excavation...much faster having an elevator placed and mine straight down the 30 tiles and sink sideways corridors off that wherever there's a hint of minerals, versus manually placing ladders, controlling one dwarf, and mining away. It takes you a step back and lets you focus on controlling all your dwarves, not just one.

Put a stockpile next to an elevator and even if you are busy elsewhere, dwarves can be assigned five minutes of work and you don't have to worry about them walking across the whole map with a few stacks of dirt. Doubly good when you're level 12+ and mana becomes more valuable.

[spike_mf]

might try that with a stockpile