Steel Talons or GDI?

[ASRIEL]

The only reason I can think of to play GDI anymore is the Armory and Advanced Infantry, neither of which I use much [mainly because of my preference for Riflemen and Rocket Squad combos]

Sure, there is the Sonic Emitter and Shatterer that help a ton with CC in the cases of Infantry Ball, but who uses the Infantry Ball aside from Easy/Hard AI?

[Mull-T]

Unless played on 1.02+ maps, ST are unplayable because their harvester are slower.
They also don't get EMP-grenades, which makes dealing with epic units rather tricky.

[SgtEmissary [Kane's Will]]

Originally posted by Jonnydread:

Unless played on 1.02+ maps, ST are unplayable because their harvester are slower.
They also don't get EMP-grenades, which makes dealing with epic units rather tricky.

Compared to GDI or ZOCOM, they are really gimped and under-powered.

For example, Behemoths just can't stand up to the newer Juggernaut model with Sniper team support.

They are cool for their Titans and Wolverines and it's like playing Tiberian Sun all over again (a great throwback knowing ST's lore), but other than that they are my least played GDI faction. I tend to go vanilla GDI, it's just so much stronger than the other two and if I had a tier system for C&C 3 ST would indeed be on the bottom for sure.

[Cat]

I'm not much of a GDI player, but I rather have the general faction because it is well-rounded. ST is great with those powerful mechs, but they have their disadvantages as well like underpowered defense and infantry. ZOCOM have the best support, with those advanced aircrafts but the ground vehicles is nothing special compared to the other factions.

[SgtEmissary [Kane's Will]]

Originally posted by Cat:

I'm not much of a GDI player, but I rather have the general faction because it is well-rounded. ST is great with those powerful mechs, but they have their disadvantages as well like underpowered defense and infantry. ZOCOM have the best support, with those advanced aircrafts but the ground vehicles is nothing special compared to the other factions.

Neither am I, I'm a Nod supporter and prefer them both in lore and from a game-play standpoint. I've said that Nod and it's sub-factions are no doubt the strongest.

I'd have my own personal tier system and it'd go like this based on strength and flexibility:

S Tier: Black Hand

A Tier: Nod, GDI (considering their well-rounded nature)

B Tier: ZOCOM, Marked of Kane, Reaper 17

C Tier: Steel Talons, Travler-59

And anyone that's looked further back into the thread will know that I am a avid Black Hand fan and why I put them in the S tier.

Some might argue that with a lack of air, they should be a tier lower but with their brute force, upgrades and artillery support that's negligible.

As far as particular match ups go? Well, I'd say one of special note would be BH versus Travler-59, it'd be a slaughter-fest.

Flame tanks + flame upgrades, Confessor Cabals + upgrades, Militant rocket squads, Attack Bikes and Mantises with Tiberium Core Missiles would counteract everything T-59 has and without heavy armor support that's why they're on the low end with Steel Talons.

[Mull-T]

Originally posted by SgtEmissary Kane's Will:

C Tier: Steel Talons, Travler-59

lol, what? I guess you never experienced Hexa-laming + cultists?
They also have the fastest rush option in the game.
Travler-59 are together with BH the best factions in the game.

[SgtEmissary [Kane's Will]]

Originally posted by Jonnydread:

Originally posted by SgtEmissary Kane's Will:

C Tier: Steel Talons, Travler-59

lol, what? I guess you never experienced Hexa-laming + cultists?
They also have the fastest rush option in the game.
Travler-59 are together with BH the best factions in the game.

Like I said, it's based on power and flexibility, I'm aware of the Disenigrator rush and so on and have used such rushes before (to great effect), but I don't think that warrants them a higher tier placement all things considered.

I knew that some of these would have been rather controversial for their tiers. But after several and several hours of playing these are my personal conclusions.

It's as I've said, without heavy armor support and being that Scrin infantry are pretty squishy, T-59 is a little on the weaker side.

I would have figured ZOCOM might have gotten most of the "Wtfs?" for it's tier placement.

[Mull-T]

Well, you don't need flexibility if you have the most lame and OP strategy in the game.
You also don't need heavy armour if you can just teleport your epic unit every 30 seconds and heal them in 2 seconds.
T59 have simply the best lategame and are to some extend a good counter to BH, as BH has no hard counter against the Mastermind (no Venoms).
Granded, they need more micromanagment to be effective than other factions, but there are
reasons for why we mainly saw BH and T59 in the large tournaments a few years back.

Zocom is a bit tricky because they are bugged without 1.02+ and even with 1.02+, most people (myself included) play the very expensive and easy to guess hammerhead strategy.
Still, better air and better infantry just for the abandonment of artillery is a good deal and Zocom should beat GDI in a mirror on most maps, but then again, Preds are badly bugged and and GDI/ZOCOM without Preds is basically inplayable.

[SgtEmissary [Kane's Will]]

Originally posted by Jonnydread:

Well, you don't need flexibility if you have the most lame and OP strategy in the game.
You also don't need heavy armour if you can just teleport your epic unit every 30 seconds and heal them in 2 seconds.
T59 have simply the best lategame and are to some extend a good counter to BH, as BH has no hard counter against the Mastermind (no Venoms).
Granded, they need more micromanagment to be effective than other factions, but there are
reasons for why we mainly saw BH and T59 in the large tournaments a few years back.

Zocom is a bit tricky because they are bugged without 1.02+ and even with 1.02+, most people (myself included) play the very expensive and easy to guess hammerhead strategy.

That's where the beauty of Nod's cheap tier 1 units come into play: overwhelm the epic unit while sniping off the healer.

Trust me, I wouldn't have made the tier list if I hadn't of experimented around and so on.

[Mull-T]

Originally posted by SgtEmissary Kane's Will:

That's where the beauty of Nod's cheap tier 1 units come into play: overwhelm the epic unit while sniping off the healer.

Yeah, one problem though:
The healer is in the base. You need to chain EMP the Hexapod until its dead without one single second without an EMP, all while your raider buggies are taken by cultists and the mastermind.
Btw, the mastermind can also teleport right the MCV and insta cap it.

[SgtEmissary [Kane's Will]]

Originally posted by Jonnydread:

Originally posted by SgtEmissary Kane's Will:

That's where the beauty of Nod's cheap tier 1 units come into play: overwhelm the epic unit while sniping off the healer.

Yeah, one problem though:
The healer is in the base. You need to chain EMP the Hexapod until its dead without one single second without an EMP, all while your raider buggies are taken by cultists and the mastermind.

Who said anything about buggies? Attack bikes with Tiberium Core Missiles are beast.

But buggies would be in there yes, I'd just wrap them around and hit from the rear, their damage is pretty good against infantry. Especially en-mass.

That's if it could get to the MCV, got at least a couple of anti-infantry defense towers near it.

[Mull-T]

Originally posted by SgtEmissary Kane's Will:

Who said anything about buggies? Attack bikes with Tiberium Core Missiles are beast.

Again: The Hexapod can be teleported every ~30 seconds.
You CAN NOT KILL the Hexapod with bikes because the hexapod will just teleport away and is at 100% in no time.

If you think you can kill a T59-Hexapod with bikes you simply have not experienced Hexa-lame in MP.

[SgtEmissary [Kane's Will]]

Originally posted by Jonnydread:

Originally posted by SgtEmissary Kane's Will:

Who said anything about buggies? Attack bikes with Tiberium Core Missiles are beast.

Again: The Hexapod can be teleported every ~30 seconds.
You CAN NOT KILL the Hexapod with bikes because the hexapod will just teleport away and is at 100% in no time.

If you think you can kill a T59-Hexapod with bikes you simply have not experienced Hexa-lame in MP.

Meh, I'm not even gonna argue.

[Mull-T]

Well, 1vs1 tomorrow? You can try to kill a T59-Hexapod with bikes :D

[SgtEmissary [Kane's Will]]

Originally posted by Jonnydread:

Well, 1vs1 tomorrow? You can try to kill a T59-Hexapod with bikes :D

Multiplayer's shut down dude... and eh, I really don't care, you got what you like to do and I got what I like to do.

[Mull-T]

Yes, do whatever you like, but please play a MP-Match against T59 and tell me Hexalaming is not the most OP thing in the game.
You can still play online if you go to cnc-online.net

It is just impossible to kill the Hexapod with a Mastermind in it and a mastermind on the map. It can just appear anywhere on the Map, deal damage and teleport away.
EMPing is hard because the units have to get in range before they are killed and can get mind-controlled. With raider buggies it is especially hard because the mind-controlled buggies can EMP the other buggies.
And if you don't kill the Hexapod immediately, it get ranks rather quick.

T59 is a bit weak in the mid-game, that is in my experience (or at least for my skill) the only possible way to win against them.