TR2 is the worst among these 3 (spoilers)

[Drunkenstein]

I guess it's not as bad as AoD but this game seems rushed. I mean there is very little "tomb raiding" in it and too many gun fights. But even if that were forgiven the plot and villain are just the worst in the entire series.
I mean what was Bartoli hoping to accomplish actually? It's pretty clear that he would not be able to take over the world in that dragon form. Since Lara managed to beat him solo with her guns it's clear his conquest would be short lived once the millitary with modern weapons got involved. But even if he did manage to accomplish it he would be stuck in that form forever so then what? He would be eating virgins for the rest of eternity?

The other villains at least had some end goal. Natla wanted to force rappid evolution on humanity, while Willard desired to become a godlike being, but Bartoli wanted to become a Dragon which can be killed by simply pulling the dagger out?

[shadowgravy]

I've never thought that deeply about this because the whole story makes no sense, but you're right. Did Bartoli intend to spend the rest of eternity in that cell living as a dragon? Was he essentially a baby dragon and he needed time to grow? And then what would be the goal?

[EF_Neo1st]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Drunkenstein:

I guess it's not as bad as AoD but this game seems rushed. I mean there is very little "tomb raiding" in it and too many gun fights. But even if that were forgiven the plot and villain are just the worst in the entire series.
I mean what was Bartoli hoping to accomplish actually? It's pretty clear that he would not be able to take over the world in that dragon form. Since Lara managed to beat him solo with her guns it's clear his conquest would be short lived once the millitary with modern weapons got involved. But even if he did manage to accomplish it he would be stuck in that form forever so then what? He would be eating virgins for the rest of eternity?

The other villains at least had some end goal. Natla wanted to force rappid evolution on humanity, while Willard desired to become a godlike being, but Bartoli wanted to become a Dragon which can be killed by simply pulling the dagger out?

TR 2 is the very best Tomb Raider ever created and I write this before reading anything other than your title because you are utterly wrong because I said so and no word you have to say will convince me otherwise (and no I dont give a flying f-k about lore or story in any of the Tomb Raiders).

[Nightmare]

I like TR2 most.
Compared to TR1 it has many gun fights, that's true.
But TR1 feels kind of empty and these animals are no real challenge.

In my opinion it's a very good mix of puzzle and action.

Cheers!

[Drunkenstein]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von EF_Neo1st:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Drunkenstein:

I guess it's not as bad as AoD but this game seems rushed. I mean there is very little "tomb raiding" in it and too many gun fights. But even if that were forgiven the plot and villain are just the worst in the entire series.
I mean what was Bartoli hoping to accomplish actually? It's pretty clear that he would not be able to take over the world in that dragon form. Since Lara managed to beat him solo with her guns it's clear his conquest would be short lived once the millitary with modern weapons got involved. But even if he did manage to accomplish it he would be stuck in that form forever so then what? He would be eating virgins for the rest of eternity?

The other villains at least had some end goal. Natla wanted to force rappid evolution on humanity, while Willard desired to become a godlike being, but Bartoli wanted to become a Dragon which can be killed by simply pulling the dagger out?

TR 2 is the very best Tomb Raider ever created and I write this before reading anything other than your title because you are utterly wrong because I said so and no word you have to say will convince me otherwise (and no I dont give a flying f-k about lore or story in any of the Tomb Raiders).

You had me at "because I said so"

[Tilarta]

Bartoli didn't want to conquer the world, he just wanted to inflict pain on people.
But because he was mortal, his cowardice prevented him from acting on his psychopathic desires.
When Lara started shooting back at him, he ran like a whippet that just challenged a bull mastiff.

I assume that when Lara encountered Bartoli after his dragonification, he wasn't yet at full power, so weak enough for her to subdue him.
The Emperor who previously used the dagger was much bigger in his dragon form.
So presumably in time, Bartoli would get stronger and more invulnerable.

[EF_Neo1st]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Drunkenstein:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von EF_Neo1st:

TR 2 is the very best Tomb Raider ever created and I write this before reading anything other than your title because you are utterly wrong because I said so and no word you have to say will convince me otherwise (and no I dont give a flying f-k about lore or story in any of the Tomb Raiders).

You had me at "because I said so" :DMCJester2:

"because you said so", if you dont uderstand I wrote as in "you writting".

Tomb Raider 2 "is the best Tomb Raider" and nothing you say will change it (no I did not read your wall of crap because I know from the small glance that it is just crap over the game story that I dont care)

[Drunkenstein]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von EF_Neo1st:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Drunkenstein:

You had me at "because I said so"

"because you said so", if you dont uderstand I wrote as in "you writting".

Tomb Raider 2 "is the best Tomb Raider" and nothing you say will change it (no I did not read your wall of crap because I know from the small glance that it is just crap over the game story that I dont care)

Yes without any punctuation it definitely sounds like it, when you read it.

[EF_Neo1st]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Drunkenstein:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von EF_Neo1st:

"because you said so", if you dont uderstand I wrote as in "you writting".

Tomb Raider 2 "is the best Tomb Raider" and nothing you say will change it (no I did not read your wall of crap because I know from the small glance that it is just crap over the game story that I dont care)

Yes without any punctuation it definitely sounds like it, when you read it.

Either way, TR2 is my favorite most replayed Tomb Raider and no nonsense about lore will change my mind

[shadowgravy]

TR2 is my favorite also, but OP has a legitimate observation about the premise of the final boss fight.

[El_Scorpio]

TR2 was my favourite, I didn't like the original TR1 because of the lack of graphical details (missing braid, pointy breasts...) but now - in remastered collection TR1 is better than TR2, while TR2 is still great. It's like TR1 is 9/10 a TR2 is 8,5/10. Sure, TR2 has way more action, way more shooting but level design is still great and story makes kind of sense for that time. TR3 on the other hand was the start of the decline in the series. Very few good levels, stupid idea to take away weapons alongside ammo (so everyone who's sane goes to Nevada first, always) and whole game was kind of chaotic and not fun. In general I would rate it 6/10.

[nelvus]

Yeah, TR2 really went down the toilet with some mediocre level design, way too many enemy encounters, especially humans, with garbage hitscan detection, and nonsensical placements/spawns. Don't even get me started with the 2 T-Rex living in a small hole in the ground below the Great Wall, surviving for centuries or millennia, on presumably their own feces.

The shooting mechanics in these games are not fun or engaging; they're just mind-numbingly dull and tedious.
The exploration and puzzle solving are where their strengths lie. These were executed masterfully in TR1, but in 2, they've taken a back seat, because the devs were given a directive to make the game more action centric; as a result, it suffered considerably. It's one of the weakest and most boring in the series.

And the story, yeah, complete nonsense.

Here's an excerpt from the TR2 pitch meeting:

... and Lara sneaks onto the plane, and while she listens in on a conversation between Marco Bartoli and his henchman, she is struck from behind and knocked out. Then, transported all the way to their off-shore rig, turned base, and imprisoned.
- But, wouldn't it be easier for them to just kill her, considering they've been trying to do just that since the beginning?
- Yeah, but we still need the game to happen.
- Well, I bet it's going to be hard for her to get out of that situation.
- Actually it's gonna be super easy, barely an inconvenience.
- Oh, really?
- Yeah, you see, she's just gonna push a button inside her cell... which opens the door.
- A prison cell, which opens from the inside?
- Exactly, and it works perfectly.
- Why would the bad guys imprison her in a cell which opens from the inside?
- I dunno.
- That works.

... and Lara grabs onto a submersible which takes her down to the ocean floor.
- So she just hangs onto the outside of a submersible, without any kind of pressurized suit or oxygen tank, while holding her breath, until it slowly descends to 40 fathoms (240 feet / 75 meters), without her running out of oxygen or bleeding into her lungs from water pressure?
- That's what we're going with.
- Well Ok then.

[Nightmare]

Lol guys, if we start judging games for being unrealistic...

I would understand it if she takes 0 damage from fire or jumps 10 meters high.

Cheers!

[EF_Neo1st]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von nelvus:

The exploration and puzzle solving are where their strengths lie. These were executed masterfully in TR1, but in 2, they've taken a back seat, because the devs were given a directive to make the game more action centric; as a result, it suffered considerably. It's one of the weakest and most boring in the series.

Yes exploration and puzzle solving are where their strengths lie and TR 2 is an absolute improvement at everything TR1 did in regards to that.

[nelvus]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von EF_Neo1st:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von nelvus:

The exploration and puzzle solving are where their strengths lie. These were executed masterfully in TR1, but in 2, they've taken a back seat, because the devs were given a directive to make the game more action centric; as a result, it suffered considerably. It's one of the weakest and most boring in the series.

Yes exploration and puzzle solving are where their strengths lie and TR 2 is an absolute improvement at everything TR1 did in regards to that.

Sure, in the same way that d0gsh1t is an improvement on beef steak.

[shadowgravy]

Classy.