Tomb Raider I-III Remastered Starring Lara Croft

Tomb Raider I-III Remastered Starring Lara Croft

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Harry Mason Feb 23, 2024 @ 10:20am
tr3 dead enemies disappear
They disappear when you move the camera and don't focus on them. i think didn't happen in the pc version.
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Showing 1-9 of 9 comments
Just Chill Feb 23, 2024 @ 10:32am 
https://www.tombraiderforums.com/showthread.php?t=127896
They disappeared since 4 ( and 5).

Apparently to spare resources, which is basically not required anymore on modern systems.
Not sure if they have to change the stated system requirements then, if they fix that. :wellok:

Addition:
I've read in a newer source that they started to disappear since 3, but apparently this is the most original thing to be found out there I guess (2008 source).

Here the other source:
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/EverythingFades
Originally posted by Examples, Action-Adventure Games:
Irritatingly got worse as the Tomb Raider series went on (and the hardware it was running on improved). In Tomb Raider and Tomb Raider II enemies pretty much never disappear; Tomb Raider III had them disappear after you had turned away for a little while; in Tomb Raider: The Last Revelation and every subsequent game, corpses always disappear right in front of your eyes after a few seconds. In Tomb Raider: Legend and Tomb Raider: Anniversary this also extends to many physics objects. Eventually averted in Tomb Raider: Underworld.
Last edited by Just Chill; Feb 23, 2024 @ 10:50am
kakiss4 Feb 23, 2024 @ 11:37am 
It depends on the Scene, some stay, if there is not too much going on.
Just Chill Feb 23, 2024 @ 12:31pm 
Originally posted by kakiss4:
It depends on the Scene, some stay, if there is not too much going on.
They should change that. Non-disappearing corpses are quite realistic immersive!
Last edited by Just Chill; Feb 23, 2024 @ 12:32pm
Delete Feb 23, 2024 @ 12:39pm 
They even dissapear in TR2!
And it never happened on PS1, it was so cool to wander around all those corpses, and now part of them just wanishes.
TR3 on PS1 had enemies dissapearing, but they take time to do so.
TR4-5 had annoying habbit to enemies dissapear rigth after they died.
Reaperman529 Feb 23, 2024 @ 1:18pm 
in tr4 it was nuisance, because if you wanted to go collect later your dead bodies loot you must remember where you killed them
Sitting Eagle Feb 23, 2024 @ 3:34pm 
Seems like an oversight. They didn't disappear in classic TR3. And we have all the resources needed to keep corpses around.
v00d00m4n Feb 24, 2024 @ 3:28am 
I really hope that they will fix it in patch both for classic and remastered mode, this is one of features that always was lazy optimization. I never understood the point of vanishing bodies in game where amount of enemies was fixed and somehow when those enemies alive and have AI and physics attached to them they are ok to be loaded in memory and does not waste too much resources, but then they dead, AI and Physics disabled, they somehow magically become so much to handle them, even despite they still eat same amount of CPU GPU and RAM, that dumb devs want to get rid of them imediately which makes zero sence. It only made sense in games where enemies can respawn endlessly so you can romove some older bodies while new coming. But TR1 an TR2 proved its not necessary in this game.

I believe the only reason it started to happens in TR3 is because it was developed by new amature team while old team was strugling with studio after 2 crunchy TR1 and TR2 and wanted to leave it but studio convinced them to stay as mentors for new devs.

And then they carried on this bad code to TR4 and 5.

Remaster should have fixe this historical mistake and keep all 3 games consistent in this. And also remove health crystals from TR3 which also always felt wrong in PC release and was indication of lazy aproach of new team to PC port. Instead of removing immersion breaking crystals, they changed changed their function and color, which made zero sense.

Also when they will release 4 and 5 they also need to disable those dissapearing bodies. They must stay forever and be saved in save game like it always was in TR1, and should remain consistent across all 5 games!
Last edited by v00d00m4n; Feb 24, 2024 @ 3:31am
kakiss4 Feb 24, 2024 @ 4:34am 
Originally posted by v00d00m4n:
I believe the only reason it started to happens in TR3 is because it was developed by new amature team while old team was strugling with studio after 2 crunchy TR1 and TR2 and wanted to leave it but studio convinced them to stay as mentors for new devs.

The Game and also IV and V were released on the PSX, they had to release a Game every Year.
Fixes and Improvements on the Engine on these Circumstances are difficult.
Tomb Raider 3 has much more Details and Geometry as Tomb Raider 1 and 2.
Compared to other Playstation Games, you have a relativly good Draw Distance, often relativly open and big Areas and much 3D Geometry with mixed in 2D Details.
As they also switched back to Save Crystals in the PSX, it seems it is a Matter of Time, Engine and targeted System that has lead into the Compromise, to let Corpses in demanding Areas disapear and also switch back to Save Crystals on the PSX.

Most Games on the PSX are very limited in what they depict on the Screen, as better the Games do look, as more they used 2D Backgrounds/Sprites or limited Movement (racing Games).
Other 3D Games as Metal Gear Solid with open accesable Areas also do let Corpses disappear.

I would say in that Scenario with that Pressure back then, they did a relativly good Job.
v00d00m4n Feb 24, 2024 @ 3:22pm 
Originally posted by kakiss4:
Originally posted by v00d00m4n:
I believe the only reason it started to happens in TR3 is because it was developed by new amature team while old team was strugling with studio after 2 crunchy TR1 and TR2 and wanted to leave it but studio convinced them to stay as mentors for new devs.

The Game and also IV and V were released on the PSX, they had to release a Game every Year.
Fixes and Improvements on the Engine on these Circumstances are difficult.
Tomb Raider 3 has much more Details and Geometry as Tomb Raider 1 and 2.
Compared to other Playstation Games, you have a relativly good Draw Distance, often relativly open and big Areas and much 3D Geometry with mixed in 2D Details.
As they also switched back to Save Crystals in the PSX, it seems it is a Matter of Time, Engine and targeted System that has lead into the Compromise, to let Corpses in demanding Areas disapear and also switch back to Save Crystals on the PSX.

Most Games on the PSX are very limited in what they depict on the Screen, as better the Games do look, as more they used 2D Backgrounds/Sprites or limited Movement (racing Games).
Other 3D Games as Metal Gear Solid with open accesable Areas also do let Corpses disappear.

I would say in that Scenario with that Pressure back then, they did a relativly good Job.

Yet again you have to re-read my entire and stop taking its portions out of context.

This is all a false! I explained already that when game has same character alive with AI and physics it ok for it taking resources that doe not affect performance, but suddenly when nps is dead its not ok and they must unload it to free resources, which makes no sense because dead character when he was alive was not affecting performance and was fitting into limited resources of console, and was doing well, and when character is dead physics and ai for it disabled so it already takes less resources when was alive, there is absolutely no point to remove its body!

Let me explain it more simplified way with absract example:

Let say we have 10 enemies on 1 level. Lets say entire level with enemies takes 1 mb or ram.
Lets say each of those enemies takes 0.01 mb , all enemies on level takes 0.10 mb, which is 10% of RAM. When they all alive they dont affect performance.
When they dead they release 0.005 mb of ram while body staying on level without physics and ai, so they already take half of space they did before and RAM usage for them reduced to 0.05 which is 5% of RAM entire level takes.
Initially rest of level took 90% ram which was budget game was optimized for, so it does not matter if you release remaining 10% occupied by NPC or will keep them, rest of data will still aim to reach its budged of 90% and not exceed it, so you will get unused free memory in this case. So there is no point to clean enemy bodies as they reside in their memory budged that was allocated for them in alive state.

As for CPU its even easier - when you start calculating physics and aI for dead body you already freeing CPU resources, without need to remove body.

As for GPU - until NPC models are so heavy they drop performance when they on screen, their models also taken into resource budged and game is already optimized to have them on screen alive without performance drops, and when they dead their 3d models remains the same and eating same performance budged of GPU, so it they dont hurt performance when alive they surely will not hurt it whe they dead and rendered with exactly same budged (minus animation).

So to put it simple - if your game runs at 30 fps or whatever your target is with alive NPC on screen, it surely will run the same with bodies of same NPC left , so their removal will give absolutely no benefit, but will ruin immersion. They only exception are cases with endless respawns of enemie, but when numbers are fixed - its useless.
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Date Posted: Feb 23, 2024 @ 10:20am
Posts: 9