Some Feedback [To The Developers]

[GreenOne]

Hello, I've played this game for a bit, not much, but anyway there are certain things I'd like to highlight that could use improvement. I realize it's at alpha stage, but maybe some of these things are better to be addressed early on to improve future builds' testing.



Beastmaster:
1) When you leave some beast's room you spawn there in the middle of main room, would be nicier i it spawned you inside beastmaster's room instead, so you don't have to jump there over and over if you want to try several different enemies, which is probably how people do things, I think.

2) Might be nice to be able to pick different weapons to try and figure out them too.

3) The Boss thingy I didn't test yet, but probably works same way



Items:
1) The controls displayed below the consumables' slots could also show the hotkeys, e.g. I assigned Q to be edibles' slot, so it could show the button, not critical & mostly useful for beginners, but people anyway have to learn it first.

2) It probably would be convenient if weapons showed their damage, armor showed the defense value, torch showed the light radius, etc, though maybe not that neccessary if you learn over time to tell it judging just by the look, but still, seems to be not too hard to add.

At least blood weapons need to show kills remaining till next heal, I think.

3) I believe it's important to know how things exactly work in a game, you need to know rules to play and enjoy game to full extent. I know there is a wiki, and many games tend to do it this way, but It would very nice to be able to learn items from within the game without having to google.
Applies to shrines as well.

4) Not sure if the slots really need names above them, but if so, theword "Weapon" fits the "Attack" slot more, I think =)



Obsidian, Gold:
This all reminds me of those games with craft, probably I'm biased about them, but I find these to be incredibly boring, and these material patter pushed me off at first, also it doesn't seem to fit the game much(though I like the glass part).
Maybe replace them with something that more fits the game theme, like Pitchfork/Resonant instead Obsidian(e.g. "Resonant Sword"/"Pitchfork Spear"), not that pitchfork/Resonant are materials, nor that I think it is awesome, just a thing from top of my head that seems to fit more. Obsidian bugs me the most, maybe I'm just odd.
And golden weapons would probably bend after a few hits, maybe Inctrusted or something smarter that fits the gold boost trait.
The game is really unique and could get rid of these patterns to improve the setting's strength, unless these things aren't yet set in stone.



The Rythm part:
1) Custom music algorithm generated beats don't seem to fit the music at all, tired about 7 songs and it barely matched some moments, no offense.
Plus at some parts of the original tracks it seems like the heart beat goes way faster than the music's actual beat, so you can't really orient purely via sound. At least it looked to me like that in the begginning of the first levels of both Zone 1 and Zone 2.

2) From the short experience I can tell that it feels a bit too slow, so you have to wait for next tap, I did the calibration. Even though I realize you won't change the track(s), which are actually pretty nice, maybe we could be able to set our own tempos? Probably doable via messing with custom songs' files, but a simple GUI for just single frequency of the beat parameter would be good =)

3) There seems to be not really much change, if at all, to the frequency of the taps, though maybe it would just make it worse.

So, yea, I quite like the game and gameplay but uncertain about the beat part, hope it gets better or I see it from a different perspective with experience coming in.


Main Character art:
She looks sort of too simplistic on the Game's Store/Community Hub Icon, and in the intro cutscene too. Not to offend, but she could use some more detailed picture.



But don't get me wrong, I like the game overall and wouldn't bother writing this if I didn't, doing this because want it to improve, not to bash it. I do like that the in-game art is pretty, animations are wonderful too, the music is nice, the way items and shrines and enemies work, singing shopkeeper deserves praise, it overall feels good.
Simply some feedback so maybe you look at something again and maybe think if it actually could use some overhaul, maybe not even close to what I suggested, but just in case. Polishing to make a good game to be great game.

Thanks for your attention! =)

[unitled]

Couldn't disagree more about telling you what the weapons etc. do! Half the fun in a game like this is experimenting and discovering what all the things do. If you want to know, the wiki is there. It reminds me of one of my favourite games, Binding of Isaac.

[GreenOne]

It would take qutie a bit of time to figure out some of the stuff, and some of it is not something you see often, so it makes it even harder to figure out. Some things you just wouldn't think work the way they do. I personally enjoy game more when I understand how it works, so I can actually decide wether I want to pick that weapon and how I'm going to use it, feels less random.

Probably that's simply a subjective thing =)

[couch]

i would love for the beastmaster to allow you to pick a weapon type as well. you ARE paying diamonds to have access to them. and the opportunity to train and perfect my rapier-lunge dance against dragons would be wonderful, as thats satisfying to pull off.

i don't see how you have so much issue with the beats. maybe you didn't do calibration right? i've had no issue with them at all really, and only had issue with custom songs when they had a tempo change in them. the beat analyzer handles tempo shifts VERY poorly. and, sometimes, it places the beat in a place that is weird for me personally in a song, even with constant tempo songs. but it's all in development anyway. and, as said above, a good number of players get satisfaction from figuring out items on their own. i also like how the game uses materials that are found in other rpgs and crpgs, but does them their own way. a lot of my love for this game is putting a rhythmic, dance-kiting spin on old roguelike tropes. i think the wiki being there is fine enough, youre not denying anyone the discovery or the information if they so choose.

[GreenOne]

As of beats, it's just that at times the heart pulses but music plays no beat, or maybe I'm paying attention to the wrong layer of music, not sure if it's clear what I mean. And I tried some progressive/experimental/technical metal, but neither fast nor slow parts were picked right. Yea, in development, I just really wanted to try it with my stuff, Audiosurf did job rather good.

And of the materials, I feel bored when I see that Wood, Gold, Obsidian etc pattern, I just don't get why anybody would fight with a sword made of gold, not practical. But other than that the mechanics of Obsidian is awesome, just don't get why it has to be obsidian, feels like a too overused cliche. Anything that fits music theme would sound better, I'd say: strengthens the setting of the game and removes these associations and weird weapon material choice. I suggested "Resonant Sword" to replace the name "Obsidian Sword", I'd be happy even with "Groove/Groovy", maybe it's a poor suggestion but shows what I mean in general.

Wiki is good, yes, and I don't mean you need to put the info right at the player's face, just give an option to see that information in game, I prefer to know how things work so I can use them properly, no matter what game. I think it's best when you aren't oblivious of what you can do in a game. I don't mean spoil secret rooms and such, but tell how items and shrines work, I'd never use Rapier if I didn't know that it inflicts doubled damage if you hit from 2 tile distance, now I pick it whenever I can =)

[whoisbatman]

Bumping this because I wanted to say the same thing about the beastmaster. I'd like to train against my opponents, but it always puts the character back in the middle of the lobby after one practice run, making it a tiresome venture at best. It would be good to fix that, because at no point in time anyone is going to say: "Hmm, now I'm going to train my moves against bats. Just bats, nothing else, so it's lucky I'll be going back to the lobby right after this."

I don't mind not being able to train with different weapons though, but I can see how some people might like it.

I also agree with the consumables rebinding. It'd be pretty easy I'm sure to just make it show the rebound key instead of left+up or whatever.

I don't agree with the rest of the OP's suggestions but to each their own.

[Nightryderace]

A lot of the items that you pick up are very intuitive. You quickly learn what they do and a lot of the time you see what they do right away. The only two items that I can think of that you won't understand right away would Ring of Courage and Ring of Charisma. Unless you're near/in a shop, you won't see the price drop with ring of charisma. But you could easily take a guess and say that it somehow affects the shop. As for ring of courage, you just need to kill an enemy or two and you'll learn what it does. I genuinely don't see any reason to have the game tell you what the items do. It's fun to realize what the items do and it doesn't take that long.

As for the "Obsidian/Gold" thing, I find it quite silly that you are arguing this. It's a game about a Necromancer that forces people to dance to the beat. The fact that you are using a weapon made of gold shouldn't bother you.

I wholeheartedly agree with the Beastmaster thing. It's very annoying to return to the lobby. :/ Not sure about the different weapons thing.

[Ryan Dorkoski]

There is some really good stuff in here. Thank you OP. I actually agree with pretty much everything you mention except, like many others on here, I would prefer the in-game info pretty much as it is right now.

[GreenOne]

I suggested it to be possible to train with different weapons just for sake of completion =)

I'd like to stress again, that blood weapons and that crown with throns need to show the countdown till next life regen.

Rebinded keys being displayed would be very convenient, plus it would probably be better if certain types of items would always use same key binding, because sometimes Up+Left is food and sometimes it's War Drum.
Also a curious question, I believe you can carry unlimited number of food with that golden backpack, War Drum and a Gun, are there enough hotkeys if you manage to get all of that?

As for the "Obsidian/Gold" thing, it's mostly not that I find it weird to use gold to forge weapons but that it's so much minecrafty terrariac and I think this game deserves something more unique to it, at least Obsidian I wish was changed to something related to beat/music, I think it would fit the lore more then.
And realism, I still think people dancing because of necromancer is more realistic than golden weapons, because the necromancer has the power to force people to dance and that is explained to be so in the alternative reality of the game, while gold seems to be just the standard gold that is very soft and unfit for a weapon material, I would be fine if it was whatever other material if it either was hard. Often argue on that kind of things with people, many seem not to see the difference between the two "unrealistic" things, but alright, screw it =)

It seems majority wants the things and their stats to be a subject of discovery, but I'm unsure how long it would take to me to realize rapier has double damage if strike is delivered from afar, and I still struggle to even remember different armor's parameters, not sure if I would even be able to figure out them without wiki, because I wouldn't want to test how much damage I take if I managed to grab some good armor to reduce chances of dying. Plus I wouldn't know damage that enemy inflicts without tiresome testing. But alright, wiki is here, I'm fine.


And Ryan, are you the developer? I think I've seen your name in the game's official forums. I thought that developers probably don't read Steam forums because they have their own dedicated forum, so I wanted to check out if people reported anything of what I wrote. But lazy to sign up there, so hope message is delivered.

[Nightryderace]

I wouldn't mind a countdown on blood weapons, but I personally don't think it's all that necessary. And training with weapons (Weapon Master in Lobby puts you in a room with a few different monsters, or just simple training dummies) sounds like a good idea to me.

Again, Gold and Obsidian are fine in my opinion. I wouldn't mind, and in fact I would welcome some original concepts for those tiers, but it's not such a big deal to me. Just my personal personal opinion. If they can come up with some original concepts/designs to replace gold and obsidian, then awesome! They should go for it! Not top priority though.

Again, a lot of weapons are quickly realized what they do. With a rapier, you can quickly learn it deals double damage by attempting to attack a Blue Slime. You'd learn that you can kill it one hit from a distance, but when up against it, it takes two hits. A lot of these things are immediately apparent and quickly learned. And while they might cause you to screw up and die, that's part of the game. Learning what things do and taking that information and using it in your next run to your advantage.

As for armor, you don't need to know how much damage they reduce exactly. Just know that plate mail is better than leather. You want to NOT get hit at all costs. The armor is there on the off chance that you screw up and do get hit and so that it might save your life. Same thing applies to enemy damage.

[GreenOne]

To clarify a bit, I do like a ton the way Obsidian stuff works, just the name bothers me =)

And yea, maybe I'd figure out stuff soon enough on my own, but I realy like to know stuff from the start so I can use stuff effectively. It's actually one of the greatest things in this game for me that it has really good numbers with damage and health, unlike some jRPG with 9999 hp and 547 damage so that you pretty much bash enemy with what's the best and can't count amount of hits you need. Good numbers, good stuff here =)

[Nightryderace]

GreenFlame님이 먼저 게시:

To clarify a bit, I do like a ton the way Obsidian stuff works, just the name bothers me =)

And yea, maybe I'd figure out stuff soon enough on my own, but I realy like to know stuff from the start so I can use stuff effectively. It's actually one of the greatest things in this game for me that it has really good numbers with damage and health, unlike some jRPG with 9999 hp and 547 damage so that you pretty much bash enemy with what's the best and can't count amount of hits you need. Good numbers, good stuff here =)

No yeah, I understand. Again, I wouldn't mind another design/name for the Obsidian and Gold stuff. : )

Ugh, I know what you mean! I hate RPG's that do that! "Hey, bigger numbers means you are more powerful!" No, it doesn't, it just makes calculations more annoying. -__- I like to know stuff from the start as well but I feel like it ruins part of the game. An example, if I knew everything about Minecraft and Terraria from the start, I wouldn't have so many ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ hours in them! Same thing goes for this game. A sense of discovery and learning is important in games. It lets you slowly develop your skills and you realize you are becoming better at the game and learning more about it and that you are becoming more powerful. And honestly, I love that. :D

[GreenOne]

Well, I like the game a lot even after having read the wiki, and that's a sign of a good game, so posting feedback in hope for it to be polished to be a great game. I've been waiting for it to come out and couldn't resist to buy it, and I'm glad I did, there are few games that I don't regret I have purchased =)

[Nazenn]

Just wanted to take the time and give my own opinions on this as this is also a game that enjoy playing a lot and have put many hours into both watching and playing. I also felt another view point might be helpful in those reading this before purchase or even just in general as many points you brought up were incredibly subjective, even while not being phrased that way, and I personally concider that this is already an amazing game, and many of the ideas you mentioned I find are well balenced as they are for reasons listed below.

As far as the feedback under the beast master section, many of those matters have been brought up before, especially weapon selection, however they are still very valid suggestions none the less.

As far as hotkeys being displayed, while it would potentially make it easier for beginners on keyboard, my own personal opinion would be that it would also potentially complicate the understanding of controls for people who move onto using DDR pads, and be pretty much unsuable for people using controllers where it would display "joypad button 5" for example, and the number for button relation usually depends on the driver per controller type and isnt always consistant across controllers, not and not everyone understands what 'joypad button 5' relates too.

On the matter of displaying the information about weapon types and functionality might seem helpful for beginners getting into the game, I feel that it risks removing a lot of difficulty for more advanced players and removing personal learning chances. While that information is out there for people who want it to get already, on the wiki and in some places on this community hub, having it in game and obvious would remove the possibility for people to learn about it by themselves if they want to take that path. I wouldn't have enjoyed the game as much personally without having that bit of ambiguity to figure out myself, even after having watched a lot of gameplay of it, and I would have found that off putting as a personal experiance.

With the gold and obsidian comments I dont have anything in particular to comment on other then that having gold weapons be gold makes it very clear what their purpose is, which you mentioned having an issue with earlier so I'm not sure why you now mentioned making this more ambiguous. Obsidian does also fit because historically it was used to create weapons in the past, just for concideration.

The issues that were raised with the rhythm detection I could see as in part being due to either your calibration and settings and/or also the choice of music that you are using. The beat detection system tries to find the average pulse across a song, the core beat, even if the song varies in style in certain parts. On songs which are very busy, very fast or have varying tempos this can be very difficult to detect the beat evenly. If you could say which songs you tried it on, and which genres and tempos (if known) it would be much more helpful in actual idetifying problems in the detection itself rather then just making a generalised statement.
While the beginning songs, in zone 1 particularly can feel slow on a very subjective level, for example I personally find them so after messing around in zone 3 for a few hours, they also provide a good starting point for beginners or those who struggle with maintaining a consistant beat, and also a nicestart for a gradual curve in speed until you reach zone 3-3. As you seem to be very concerned with the difficulty for beginners I am not sure as to your conflicting point here.
If you have also messed with the tempos in the replay's as well you'll also see the having custom tempos for a song can actually mess with the code as far as enemies moving consistantly and remaining in sync with you, a similar problem use to happen in bard mode for example if moving too fast.
And as mentioned before, the beat per song is meant to be very consistant, it is not meant to be the pattern of notes in a song, it is designed to be the base beat, and that beat does have very different tempos across all avalible zones and their music, so can't really understand the comment about their not being much change unless there is further explaination here that hasn't been provided.

On character art, while I don't know the design decisions that were made in development, however you can see the development of the character here http://braceyourselfgames.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6 , speaking from my own experiance in the field of design, having the larger pictures for cadence makes sense as far as an identification standpoint, on being able to relate the character in that art work into the small pixel character you end up controlling.

[GreenOne]

So are there developers reading all that? Is it worth posting?