Does Chameleon Even Do Anything?

[GrandMajora]

Maybe I'm missing something, but it seems like the Chameleon spell is useless. Every time I try using it to avoid enemies, it never seems to work. I've had enemies spot my party and engage me in combat from quite a distance away. In one instance, they were all the way on the other side of the Rapax throne room, and still spotted my party trying to sneak past them.

Considering the enemies constantly scale up to your level, and there are few places in the world where you can safely rest without being ambushed, it would be nice to have some method of easily avoiding fights when your party is out of mana and needs to take a breather to recover.

[mpnorman10]

Experiment with it. It does have an impact but it is subtle and long distance, not so much for across a room.

After 20 years of playing this game I am still an amateur in its use, but part of the reason is because the impact is not huge and you can skip it. I find it most useful when wishing to get around a corner that is exposed to a distant enemy.

I also do not mind that its impact, even though small, when included in the rebuffs between battles builds the Earth Realm. For an Alchemist (or Bishop) the Earth Realm is important, especially if the spell Earthquake is part of your long-term battle plan, but for the Psionic, who can also cast it (along with respective hybrids in both cases) the Earth Realm is not so important.

For a melee/range party that wishes to engage enemy groups as close to one at a time as possible, it helps a little, once you get a feel for the distances.

Ironically for an MDP (Magic Damage Party) there is a bit of conflict of interest because there you want to engage as many enemy groups at the same time as possible (to clean out an area with efficient use of AOE spells). Still, judicious use of a Sonic Boom spell at maximum distance can often engage distant even out of sight groups, irregardless of Chameleon. It is like playing the piano...

[Reality]

I think the game is split pretty starkly between open areas and corrider areas.

It definately helps a little on places like the Arnika Roads, and the Swamp, but in Monastery, Mt Gigas, Upper Trynton, etc it's useless.

I think more to the point is that even if you don't want to fight, combat sprinting to flee is a better option in almost all cases. You might take some potshots, but unless you are delibaretly underleveld (probbably a speedrun or other challegne run) that shouldn't be excessively lethal.

If you want chameleon to get the first turn of combat at close range against a bunch of mage-types, again it's outclassed, I remember taking ALL-melee parties against things like the Rynjin Chieftain by manual starting combat when out of sight behind the buildings and using a sprint to get up to them on the 1st turn.

So as far as I'm concerned it's just for training earth magic out of combat

[Giddbin]

I've thought a lot about it. It's a spell that should be used on the offensive before combat. It's often misunderstood to be a defense/cover mechanism to escape combat.

Here's the way the game defines it...."A subtle camouflage makes it more difficult to he seen, making it seem as if you appeared out of nowhere when finally noticed by your opponent."

I think its original intention was to be used to approach your prey in secret to get closer for the first strike. Range is always an issue for us.

Avoiding conflict may not have been the main purpose to include it in the game although it can used for that too in wide open areas.

[HOK1970]

Chameleon is the sniper spell in Wizardry 8 and is a great way to take out enemies at a distance without them even noticing you. This is especially effective with bundled AOE spells like Fireball. For sneak passages, especially in closed rooms, Chameleon is less suitable, as the enemy always notices the party at a short distance.
I tested this once with Nessie to get to the Devy Jones chest unnoticed. Chameleon works at a long distance, but as soon as I get close to her, she always notices me.

In addition, the use of this buff is very useful to increase Alchemy and of course Earth Magic.
For my Wiz/Alch Bishop this spell is very important, because I can only develop Alchemy quickly with the help of this buff and it is also the only buff that does not appear in the spellbook Wizardry or Divinity.

[AJAX]

One thing to remember when using Chameleon is you need to have the Light spell off. The Light spell cancels any advantage the Chameleon spell may give.

[GrandMajora]

Originally posted by AJAX:

One thing to remember when using Chameleon is you need to have the Light spell off. The Light spell cancels any advantage the Chameleon spell may give.

I was beginning to suspect that was the case. Nice to have some confirmation about it, though. Thank you.

[Horpner Sneed]

The theory that Light Spell makes Chameleon less effective, while wide-spread in the Wizardy 8 community, and extremely logical, is wrong. Use both at will!

In my experience I can definitely skirt past enemies much more easily with a strong Chameleon spell. I'd say it's actual effect my be to delay the enemy reacting to the party.

[GrandMajora]

Originally posted by HOK1970:

In addition, the use of this buff is very useful to increase Alchemy and of course Earth Magic.
For my Wiz/Alch Bishop this spell is very important, because I can only develop Alchemy quickly with the help of this buff and it is also the only buff that does not appear in the spellbook Wizardry or Divinity.

You can also quickly train the Alchemy spell book by merging potions together. More often than not, the combined potions sell for more money than their individual components do, which is why Alchemist are considered the best money makers in the game.

You only need 25 Alchemy to create Heavy Healing Potions from a Light and Medium healing potion, while 50 Alchemy allows you to create a Renewal Potion from combining a Heavy Heal and Cure Disease.

Just remember to Shift Click and only merge 1 potion at a time. That will give you more training than merging an entire stack.

Once you get to Arnika, buy as many Light and Medium healing potions as possible and merge them one by one. Sell the Heavy Potions for cash and repeat the process. Once you have 50 Alchemy, move on to buying Heavy Heals and Cure Disease.

Using this method, I was able to make more than double my money back. Going from 40,000 gold when I started, to 90,000 gold when I finished.

[vysionier]

Originally posted by GrandMajora:

Originally posted by HOK1970:

In addition, the use of this buff is very useful to increase Alchemy and of course Earth Magic.
For my Wiz/Alch Bishop this spell is very important, because I can only develop Alchemy quickly with the help of this buff and it is also the only buff that does not appear in the spellbook Wizardry or Divinity.

You can also quickly train the Alchemy spell book by merging potions together. More often than not, the combined potions sell for more money than their individual components do, which is why Alchemist are considered the best money makers in the game.

You only need 25 Alchemy to create Heavy Healing Potions from a Light and Medium healing potion, while 50 Alchemy allows you to create a Renewal Potion from combining a Heavy Heal and Cure Disease.

Just remember to Shift Click and only merge 1 potion at a time. That will give you more training than merging an entire stack.

Once you get to Arnika, buy as many Light and Medium healing potions as possible and merge them one by one. Sell the Heavy Potions for cash and repeat the process. Once you have 50 Alchemy, move on to buying Heavy Heals and Cure Disease.

Using this method, I was able to make more than double my money back. Going from 40,000 gold when I started, to 90,000 gold when I finished.

It’s actually 15 alchemy to create heavy heal, 20 for pick me up and acid bombs, 40 for making cure disease, then 50 for renewal, pandemonium powder, and restoration.

Potion mixing is indeed a great way to make gold and train at the same time, but for a class like hok’s bishop who mainly advances his wiz/Div, it becomes quite hard to train alchemy because of how the spells share with other spellbooks. An example of this is knock knock which is shared with wizardry, so it will no longer train alchemy when cast when wizardry is higher and vise a versa. Which is where chameleon comes in as a training spell for alchemy.

[GrandMajora]

Originally posted by vysionier:

It’s actually 15 alchemy to create heavy heal, 20 for pick me up and acid bombs, 40 for making cure disease, then 50 for renewal, pandemonium powder, and restoration.

Yes, you're right. I misread the level requirement.

15 - Light Heal + Bless = Guardian Angel

15 - Light Heal + Mod Heal = Heavy Heal

15 - Light Heal + Poison Reduction = Cure Poison

20 - Stink bomb + Boom bomb = Acid bomb

20 - Mod Heal + Mod Stamina = Pickmeup

40 - Cure Light Condition + Heavy Heal = Cure Disease

50 - Heavy Heal + Cure Disease = Potion of Renewal

50 - Heavy Heal + Heavy Stamina = Potion of Restoration

50 - Sneeze Powder + Flash Powder = Pandemonium Powder

75 - Dust of Dessication + Concussion Powder = Skeleton Powder

85 - Magic Nectar + Potion of Renewal = Resurrection Powder

95 - Ice bomb + Fire bomb = Canned Elemental

[Horpner Sneed]

Of those recipes, the ones I make nearly every game are:

• Heavy Heal: Best early money-maker
  
• Acid Bomb: Good upgrade of the components
  
• Cure Disease: Next big money-maker
  
• Pandemonium Powder: Plentiful found ingredients and best money-maker by margin.
  
• Potion of Renewal: Money-maker that obviates money-making

Based on one of biogoo's videos I've experimented with making Pickmeup Potions to fill in the alchemy training gap between 15 and 40. It's effective, but only recommended if you really need the training because it depletes the supply of Moderate Heal, cutting into your money-making.

[vysionier]

Originally posted by Horpner Sneed:

Of those recipes, the ones I make nearly every game are:

• Heavy Heal: Best early money-maker
  
• Acid Bomb: Good upgrade of the components
  
• Cure Disease: Next big money-maker
  
• Pandemonium Powder: Plentiful found ingredients and best money-maker by margin.
  
• Potion of Renewal: Money-maker that obviates money-making

Based on one of biogoo's videos I've experimented with making Pickmeup Potions to fill in the alchemy training gap between 15 and 40. It's effective, but only recommended if you really need the training because it depletes the supply of Moderate Heal, cutting into your money-making.

Personally, I like to make pickmeups for their use only, when everyone has 5 I stop making them, then replace them with the red one that’s a cure/heal when I can start making those en-masse. I then proceed to use those as an instant cure for like everything. It’s expensive, but it’s a real inventory saver!!

[Horpner Sneed]

Originally posted by vysionier:

Personally, I like to make pickmeups for their use only, when everyone has 5 I stop making them, then replace them with the red one that’s a cure/heal when I can start making those en-masse. I then proceed to use those as an instant cure for like everything. It’s expensive, but it’s a real inventory saver!!

I carry Restoration Potions around in group inventory and never use them--a pretty ineffective policy but certainly great conservation of resources!

I highly recommend taking the time to clutter up your characters' personal inventories with useful consumables, though. It's tedious, but preparation can save your party or make a difficult situation recoverable.

[vysionier]

Depends on the party. Some parties I load up on everything, scrolls, potions, bombs, powders. Like my 4 hybrid faerie party. Some I run with no supply worries. Like a standard valk/rogue/bard/alch/priest/mage party. With two and a half-ish condition/healers in the party, I wouldn’t worry about stocking up on potions.

[Horpner Sneed]

Yes, in most parties personal inventory eventually becomes unimportant. Some things I carry that eventually become obsolete, including progression of items where applicable:

Light Heal->Bread Rolls->Pickmeup Potions->Nothing
Smelling Salts (only one rare spell can do this!)
Resurrection Powders->Nothing (depends on the character)
Cure Paralysis Powders->Nothing (depends on the character)
Cure Poison->Nothing
Moderate Stamina->Heavy Stamina->Nothing (only on Bard, Gadgeteer)
Magic Nectar->Nothing (sometimes)

Any tips or suggestions welcome.