Why is matchmaking so broken?

[Slothy]

I can't find a match with anyone NEAR my skill level everyone is like super good comboing me to a point where i can't move and just keep getting hit, it's ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ ridiculous

[Cynical]

Escrito originalmente por The Assassin:

Taking the experts out of Quickmatch and putting them in lobbies would kill whats left of the online community to the point where it would be deader than dead.

How on earth do you come to that conclusion?

It's not like the experts are going to all make lobbies labeled "Casual Matches: Beginner". Believe me, the last thing that people who are experienced at this game want is to spend time facing players that we can kill while autopiloting. By making lobbies and naming them appropriately, experts would basically be marking themselves. They'd be hanging a giant sign saying "hey, if you're a beginner and don't want to get trounced, DON'T ENTER THIS LOBBY!"

Plus, even if they use one of the names like "Skullheart's Pulse" or whatever, one or two games will be enough for a beginner to figure out "ok, this guy is waaaaay stronger than what I'm looking for, time to go to another lobby", and they won't have to worry about randomly getting matched against him again.

In short, experts making lobbies instead of doing QM would actually REDUCE expert vs. newbie situations.

It's where I find most of the hardcore veterans, and its effectively the one place a veteran can go to guarentee finding someone of his skill level.

I can tell you from experience that this is NOT the case. Most of the people I face in QM are in the high beginner to intermediate range; decent players are by far the minority there.

[Detestable Geohound]

Escrito originalmente por Cynical:

How on earth do you come to that conclusion?

Because a significant portion of the 377 or so members of SkullGirls Fight Club avoid it like the plague for the exact reason that they only get completely stomped. Lots of them join specifically to find players of their skill level because the game itself has no way of actually providing such opponents. This isn't a flaw in the system as much as it is just what happens to games with small communities.

Escrito originalmente por Cynical:

By making lobbies and naming them appropriately, experts would basically be marking themselves. They'd be hanging a giant sign saying "hey, if you're a beginner and don't want to get trounced, DON'T ENTER THIS LOBBY!"

If enough of those lobbies were present players might feel pressured into joining a match badly enough they'll ignore said giant sign. After being stomped accordingly in the several lobbies hosted and run by veteran players, the newer player can become discouraged and just decide to avoid online altogether; considering that the ratio of lower level lobbies to higher level lobbies would be astronomically skewed. Why would anyone believe that they could play someone on their level if a majority of the lobbies didn't hold said players? You'd be better off finding a group and hosting private lobbies.

Escrito originalmente por Cynical:

I can tell you from experience that this is NOT the case. Most of the people I face in QM are in the high beginner to intermediate range; decent players are by far the minority there.

I can tell you from my experience that I've only ever won a dozen or so matches in QuickMatch because the system immediately pairs me with the only available players; 9/10 of which are veterans or players much higher in skill than me (Skull has trashed me a few times, just to give you an idea). This occurs so much that I stopped using Quickmatch altogether and will only look for public lobbies.

[Cynical]

Escrito originalmente por The Assassin:

If enough of those lobbies were present players might feel pressured into joining a match badly enough they'll ignore said giant sign [...] considering that the ratio of lower level lobbies to higher level lobbies would be astronomically skewed.

This is literally an impossibility, because, as with every competitive game ever, the low-level players vastly out number the high-level players.

Plus, even if high-level players outnumbered low-level players that badly, going to quickmatch would be the exact same thing, except without the sign.

Escrito originalmente por The Assassin:

I can tell you from my experience that I've only ever won a dozen or so matches in QuickMatch because the system immediately pairs me with the only available players; 9/10 of which are veterans or players much higher in skill than me (Skull has trashed me a few times, just to give you an idea). This occurs so much that I stopped using Quickmatch altogether and will only look for public lobbies.

I have no idea who Skull is unless you are referring to Skullmaggedon, who I would say is intermediate level. If you're getting beaten by him, you need to work on your spacing and movement; his neutral game is pretty weak, so the things that beginners usually complain about (combos and resets) really shouldn't matter much if your fighting game fundamentals are up to snuff.

Also, just because most players are higher in skill than you doesn't mean those players are anywhere near the top echelons. Hell, I win the vast vast majority of my quickmatches, and I'm nowhere near the top. It means you're a beginner, and should probably try to fight other beginners.

[Detestable Geohound]

Escrito originalmente por Cynical:

This is literally an impossibility, because, as with every competitive game ever, the low-level players vastly out number the high-level players.

Not so.

Strike Vector is a perfect example. Not only were there more high level players but there were so few players that the developer put the game on sale for $2.50 to increase the playerbase. Before the sale the game averaged 10 players per month with a peak of 64 players at one time for approximately 3 full months. After the sale the number has drastically changed, increasing by 50+ average players with a peak of 374 players.

Let me also point out that Strike Vector got some pretty serious coverage by TotalBiscuit whom has 1.7 Million subscribers at this point in time. So this isn't a game one could exactly say flew under the radar.

It should be noted that the game had to have that huge sale just to bring in those players and return the balance. We would hope that Skullgirls never has to be brought to that level (and I dont yet see why it should).

Escrito originalmente por Cynical:

If you're getting beaten by him, you need to work on your spacing and movement; his neutral game is pretty weak, so the things that beginners usually complain about (combos and resets) really shouldn't matter much if your fighting game fundamentals are up to snuff.

I think your definition of Intermediate is a bit different from mine. I think you'd have to fight me yourself to get a better idea of exactly where I stand before you start trying to give me pointers.

Escrito originalmente por Cynical:

It means you're a beginner, and should probably try to fight other beginners.

I promise you, after 156 hours I am not a beginner.

[Cynical]

Escrito originalmente por The Assassin:

I think your definition of Intermediate is a bit different from mine. I think you'd have to fight me yourself to get a better idea of exactly where I stand before you start trying to give me pointers.

I know that I have fought you in the past; all I remember was seeing your name on the character select screen, thinking you were another player with a similar name ("The Almighty Assassin"), thinking "cool, this guy is decent and I haven't seen him online in quite a while!", and then realizing very quickly once in the game that you were a different (and weaker) player.

But, if you want to face me again, the "add friend" button is right there.

(Oh, and at your level, ALL that matters is the neutral game -- that is, movement and spacing. No one at your level has decent pressure, and the difference between 5.5k and 6.5k in a combo is fairly immaterial).

I promise you, after 156 hours I am not a beginner.

Time in game means nothing. There are people with a lot less time in game than me who are better, and there are people with a lot more time in game than me who are worse.

[Detestable Geohound]

Escrito originalmente por Cynical:

I promise you, after 156 hours I am not a beginner.

Time in game means nothing. There are people with a lot less time in game than me who are better, and there are people with a lot more time in game than me who are worse.

The definition of Beginner generally infers someone who is unfamiliar with the system in question. 156 hours later you cannot say someone is unfamiliar with a system.

I also don't ever remember fighting you at all. There are quite a large number of steam users with names similar or identical to "The Assasin" (so much so I ran into someone with my exact name in a TF2 server a few weeks back). I'll add you and we can spar sometime tomorrow depending on your location/ping. I really hope you're on the East Coast.

[Jamie A. Rose]

Escrito originalmente por Cynical:

I know that I have fought you in the past; all I remember was seeing your name on the character select screen, thinking you were another player with a similar name ("The Almighty Assassin"), thinking "cool, this guy is decent and I haven't seen him online in quite a while!", and then realizing very quickly once in the game that you were a different (and weaker) player.

But, if you want to face me again, the "add friend" button is right there.

(Oh, and at your level, ALL that matters is the neutral game -- that is, movement and spacing. No one at your level has decent pressure, and the difference between 5.5k and 6.5k in a combo is fairly immaterial).

Time in game means nothing. There are people with a lot less time in game than me who are better, and there are people with a lot more time in game than me who are worse.

This is the kind of pervasive attitude that dissuades new players from getting into fighting games. Your "MLG PRO" attitude that you share with so many other self-aggrandizing elitists is what's killing this genre. Admittedly I've seen far worse than this, but this is still alarmingly patronizing.

It's this kind of attitude that folds into why lower skilled players don't want to use quick match. I know it's certainly discouraged me.

[Cynical]

Escrito originalmente por Black Rose Angel:

This is the kind of pervasive attitude that dissuades new players from getting into fighting games. Your "MLG PRO" attitude that you share with so many other self-aggrandizing elitists is what's killing this genre. Admittedly I've seen far worse than this, but this is still alarmingly patronizing.

Wait, the genre is dying? Because there sure are a lot more fighting games being released, selling better, and being played more, than there were ten years ago.

It's this kind of attitude that folds into why lower skilled players don't want to use quick match. I know it's certainly discouraged me. :headstone:

Hey, I already said that I want more people of ALL skill levels to use the lobby system instead of QM. Sounds like what I'm saying is working!

[Jamie A. Rose]

Escrito originalmente por Cynical:

Hey, I already said that I want more people of ALL skill levels to use the lobby system instead of QM. Sounds like what I'm saying is working!

If the lobbies aren't bugging out, they're populated with "Noob Hunters".

[Zelph]

Escrito originalmente por Black Rose Angel:

Escrito originalmente por Cynical:

Hey, I already said that I want more people of ALL skill levels to use the lobby system instead of QM. Sounds like what I'm saying is working!

If the lobbies aren't bugging out, they're populated with "Noob Hunters".

Any actually good player won't be joining a beginner lobby without the intent to help them practice. The players who are actually serious about the game want to play people around there skill level.

[Cynical]

Escrito originalmente por Black Rose Angel:

If the lobbies aren't bugging out, they're populated with "Noob Hunters".

They really aren't. Occasionally, you'll see one, in which case you can make a new lobby.

They rarely bug out, either, as long as you stick to 4 people or smaller (and, as I've said, I've never seen them bug out with 2 or 3).

Plus, let's be real; "beginner", "intermediate", and "expert" being three broad swaths, you'll likely see players that are better than others in a beginner lobby, so unless you think you're magically "the best beginner in the world!" (in which case, you'd be better suited by losing in intermediate lobbies to improve, anyways), you're going to face players who are better than you and beat you consistently.

EDIT: Omegareaper said it shorter and better than I did. So, read what he said.

[Cynical]

I can guarantee you there was no one "godlike" in a beginner lobby; even the very rare (and I do mean *very* rare) trolls you get are, at best, "decent", not godlike. You were not facing Dekillsage in a beginner lobby.

It's more likely that there was one beginner who was better than the other beginners in the room. When you divide the entire freakin' player base of a game into three categories, there's a big gap between the lower parts of that category, and the top of it.

[Popnlocker]

if you need help with this game i love teaching people new things and trying out new things for myself as well :D

[Cynical]

Escrito originalmente por node357:

there's no catching up to the original players of this game.

Strange, then explain how someone like me who started over six months after the game's initial PC retail release, and well over a year after the original console release, and still face a lot of evenly skilled or weaker players?

You probably won't ever be Dekillsage or even Keninblack, but you don't have to be to have enough competence to beat the majority of QM players.

[Zelph]

Escrito originalmente por node357:

yeah lots of people offer to teach but all they do is make you watch them beat the tar out of you until you unfriend them. there's no difference in difficulty between quickmatch and lobbies anyway. both of them are going to result in perpetual losses and inability to fight back. that is when they don't mess up or make your game crash or whatever. there's no catching up to the original players of this game. there's not even the possibility of playing. i'm sure most people buy games to play, not watch. i've spent 124 hours so far mostly watching. matchmaking isn't broken. the few people that stick with this game are just too good to play against.

s/quickmatch/deathwish/

and lobbies are just a buggy mess no one bothers to fix. lose/lose

I started playing quick match after roughly 30-40 hours of playing against the cpu on nightmare mostly. I lost a lot at first. But slowly it has been turning so I win more often then not. There aren't that many people that completely curb stomp me anymore. They are the rarity now. And I started really playing this year with nobody to really practice with.

If you have enough motivation to keep with something, you can succeed.