I'm confused about this censorship controversey

[Hunter (BloodyMoonlight)]

I don't get why the new devs decided that they needed to censor the game after the third new DLC character. I mean I get it could be for EVO. But then again this game could have easily had a toggle on or off feature when it came to censorship.

I personally still love Skullgirls but the move to censor it without any type of way to have it uncensored feels icky to me.

I remember playing this game back on the Ps4 and loving the characters and the story.

Stuff like big bands origin hits hard nowadays, The fact they censored it feels oddly disrespectful and shameful.

This is not a kids game, Its T rated for sure but it has a lot of dark elements in it.

Sure we all could go "ME LOVE CUTE GIRLS OOOH OOH AA AAH" but I rather take a unique perspective on it.

The devs can censor the game all they want but they will never remove what was one of my favorite fighting games.

anyway, Whats all your opinions? (please be professional)

[1.2M | Missingno.]

Devs do not need to ask your permission to update their game. Who do you think you are?

[Pyro3000]

Spooky Ghost Missingno. původně napsal:

Devs do not need to ask your permission to update their game. Who do you think you are?

The people they want to buy their game so that they can have food and shelter.

[Tanoomba]

Pyro3000 původně napsal:

Social issues are purely ideological at the foundational level.

If that's true, then something being ideological isn't inherently negative.

[Tanoomba]

Ness_and_Sonic původně napsal:

Which is why retroactive censorship should be off limits unless it's done with a toggle switch as it at least keeps the existing stuff in tact.

There is no "should", just what you personally would prefer.

Ness_and_Sonic původně napsal:

They provided a means to do express our opinions with reviews to let other consumers if they should buy games or not, then undermined it by filtering the results when the developer/publisher do something that they bad later on.

The devs didn't do anything "bad". An entitled angry mob attempted to hijack the review system for culture war purposes and Valve justifiably minimized the damage done. But considering complaints have been allowed to run rampant on the forums, seems people are very much able to be heard. And they have been heard! Loud and clear.

Ness_and_Sonic původně napsal:

It means to solve problems people have.

It's not actually a problem. No harm was done. People aren't owed restitution just because they're obsessed with a culture war.

Ness_and_Sonic původně napsal:

Those are really the only two options to redress things.

If they're the only two options, why have the devs done neither? I don't think you know how ultimatums work.

Ness_and_Sonic původně napsal:

if employees are doing that, it's a sign they probably are better off in another job.

Nobody's forcing them to stay with the studio. If they want other jobs, they are free to seek them. It seems they believe they're better off with their current jobs, though, regardless of your sincere concerns about their well-being.

Ness_and_Sonic původně napsal:

I'm sticking to the consumer side of this as having bought the game, that's what I'm and my rights were violated.

What if they were? You're certainly not going to do anything about it. Are you going to get revenge by repeatedly insisting they only have 2 options while the devs continue to do neither, year after year, forever? I'm sure that'll show 'em!

Ness_and_Sonic původně napsal:

Because it was constantly a topic discussed on Sonic Mania's forum for years until its removal, despite attempts to derail topics discussing it.

Correlation does not equal causation, especially when the same approach failed for every other Sonic game.

[Tanoomba]

lukaself původně napsal:

In the end, it's very simple. The change in the review score was substantial enough to show that this decision was not inconsequential and seen in a negative light by a large part of the audience.

Non sequitur. The backlash wasn't a result of the changes being substantial OR a large part ofd the audience being upset. It was the result of entitled gamers obsessing over their culture war.

lukaself původně napsal:

I don't see the point for some users here to stalwartly denying that they have durably hurt their ability to sell games going forward.

Well, that's easy to prove. Electronic Arts has been voted the worst company in the world for several years, and they have engaged in every possible anti-consumer practice, not to mention enforced poor working conditions for their employees. No company has a worse reputation than them. And yet they continue to make money hand over fist, year after year. It turns out "reputation" only matters to a handful of people who like to complain online, while the cast, VAST majority of gamers don't care about any of that and just want to enjoy their games.

After years and years of people claiming devs have lost the goodwill of their fans and will never recover over some perceived slight, I have never seen a game fail to sell on the grounds that the previous game angered some people.

[Pyro3000]

Tanoomba původně napsal:

Pyro3000 původně napsal:

Social issues are purely ideological at the foundational level.

If that's true, then something being ideological isn't inherently negative.

I don't believe being ideological is inherently negative at all. Ideology leads to a lot of societal advancement. However, I don't believe an already released product is the place to do it.

Spider-Man 2 wants to push ideology quite heavily. I'm not going to go into Spider-Man 2's threads and argue. I never bought Spider-Man 2. I bought and enjoyed 1, and enjoyed Miles Morales as a free game, but I'm glad I didn't have to buy it because I don't think it was worth the initial price tag. I don't go to Spider-Man 2's discussion board to complain about the change in focus for the series even though Spider-Man was my favorite hero as a child. Why? Because I never bought Spider-Man 2. I was able to discern that Spider-Man 2 is not for me. However, if they patched Spider-Man 1 for the sake of changing the game to match their ideology, I would jump in and complain because I am a paid consumer for that product.

[Ness_and_Sonic]

Pyro3000 původně napsal:

Spooky Ghost Missingno. původně napsal:

Devs do not need to ask your permission to update their game. Who do you think you are?

The people they want to buy their game so that they can have food and shelter.

Exactly. As a consumer they owe us for that reason. If they don't appreciate what we did, they can offer us the money back.

[Ness_and_Sonic]

Tanoomba původně napsal:

Ness_and_Sonic původně napsal:

Which is why retroactive censorship is off limits unless it's done with a toggle switch as it at least keeps the existing stuff in tact.

There is no "should", just what you personally would prefer.

The devs didn't do anything "bad". An entitled angry mob attempted to hijack the review system for culture war purposes and Valve justifiably minimized the damage done. But considering complaints have been allowed to run rampant on the forums, seems people are very much able to be heard. And they have been heard! Loud and clear.

It's not actually a problem. No harm was done. People aren't owed restitution just because they're obsessed with a culture war.

If they're the only two options, why have the devs done neither? I don't think you know how ultimatums work.

Nobody's forcing them to stay with the studio. If they want other jobs, they are free to seek them. It seems they believe they're better off with their current jobs, though, regardless of your sincere concerns about their well-being.

What if they were? You're certainly not going to do anything about it. Are you going to get revenge by repeatedly insisting they only have 2 options while the devs continue to do neither, year after year, forever? I'm sure that'll show 'em!

Correlation does not equal causation, especially when the same approach failed for every other Sonic game.

Okay, removed the word should for you. It still stands that retroactive censorship of stuff people spent their money on is off limits.

The bad reviews were about a patch that censored content people paid for without implementation of a toggle switch similar to how Hotline Miami 2, Brutal Legend, and Sunset Overdrive did things and the censorship of various dialog, the Russian announcer, and the art book. People spent their money on that stuff and their well within their rights to have their negative opinions on being cheated out of their money heard.

I never said anything about the culture war. There's a reason I mention the OtherOS lawsuit and PS3 firmware update 3.21. It's about removing part of what people paid their money for. It's basically them trying to cheat people out of their own hard earn money. Reminds me of the situation where Apple tried to slow down older devices claiming they were doing it because of the battery.

In terms of the law, it is. It's worth mentioning that America is a country where people sue over all kinds of things. Example, McDonalds has to put a warning on coffee that says something that should seem like common sense after a lawsuit for example. For all we know, someone could be in the process of preparing a lawsuit against Hidden Variable and Autumn Games as we speak.

Okay, if they want to stick with the studio, they can get to work on undoing the censorship. Those that don't can be fired for putting the company in a situation that opens them to class action lawsuits and fines.

I'm very persistent. Sony fans know that as well as a number of people on the Sonic Mania forums.

Truth of the matter is I didn't bother with other Sonic games. However, I did get my way with PlayStation games just by being persistent with it and being patient. I just have to not buy Sony's games on their hardware and there's no PS+ requirement to play online.

[1.2M | Missingno.]

Just because you paid $3 or so during a Steam sale does not give you final say over all decisions the developers make. Do other game developers typically come up to you and ask your permission before they release patches?

[Pyro3000]

Spooky Ghost Missingno. původně napsal:

Just because you paid $3 or so during a Steam sale does not give you final say over all decisions the developers make. Do other game developers typically come up to you and ask your permission before they release patches?

I may not have the final say, but I have a fair say. I believe that Autumn Games in a country with a free market and a system where representation matters. The price someone paid shouldn't matter, though I've personally paid far more than you seem to believe. Not counting the PC version that I was able to refund and re-obtain through a second hand key, I bought the PS3 and PS4 versions, and put a bit into the mobile game before I quickly got bored and dropped it. Then of course the bit that I put in during crowdfunding, but I can't say I remember how much I contributed nor do I care to dig into it.

Consumers have the right to speak on the products they own.

[1.2M | Missingno.]

That still doesn't give you final say over their decisions.

[Pyro3000]

Spooky Ghost Missingno. původně napsal:

That still doesn't give you final say over their decisions.

Yes, that is part of what I said.

[Providence 777]

Spooky Ghost Missingno. původně napsal:

Devs do not need to ask your permission to update their game. Who do you think you are?

Remember, every single user who says "update" is explicitly lying.

Name a single user who doesn't want new content added or bugs fixed via update.
What's that? can't find one?

Now count how many users don't want content DELETED after they buy the game.
What's that now? It's over 8 thousand?

Anyone who says "update" instead of "delete" is a liar.

[Pyro3000]

Providence 777 původně napsal:

Spooky Ghost Missingno. původně napsal:

Devs do not need to ask your permission to update their game. Who do you think you are?

Remember, every single user who says "update" is explicitly lying.

Name a single user who doesn't want new content added or bugs fixed via update.
What's that? can't find one?

Now count how many users don't want content DELETED after they buy the game.
What's that now? It's over 8 thousand?

Anyone who says "update" instead of "delete" is a liar.

I certainly dislike a lot of updates that games get, too, tbh. RuneScape got worse and worse, and eventually they listened to the upset fans and returned RSC and OSRS. Binding of Isaac also royally screwed up the game with an update that added in a bunch of formerly optional mods to the main game.

But all that being said, there's no way that what skullgirls has done can be likened to the typical game update. It did not happen to fix bugs. It did not happen to try to add more content. It happened entirely to remove some things and tone other things down because the current heads decided 10 years later that the game they sold was actually really ick.

[Ness_and_Sonic]

Spooky Ghost Missingno. původně napsal:

That still doesn't give you final say over their decisions.

Nope, but the money given should give everyone that bought it an equal say on the matter and it's not like they can't implement a toggle switch into the options menu to allow people to have the full roster and uncensored version at the same time regardless of which platform they play on while allowing those that don't like the uncensored version to just turn it off and have only the cutscenes changed for them. Basically a solution that allows a win win for buyers involved regardless of system and not having to put up with downloading the game each time they want to switch version. They could also offer the censored and uncensored art book so both can coexist and one can choose which they want to install if they bought it, thus solving the issue for everyone. Granted, they'll have to keep them both up to date or implement all future art work to an addendum art book so you don't lose out on new stuff by choosing censored or uncensored version instead of both.