Skullgirls 2nd Encore

Skullgirls 2nd Encore

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eldred Aug 7, 2023 @ 1:51am
hey what is goingn on i am so confused
i feel like i am about to open an entire can of worms, but can anyone explain to me what's has been happening? i just bought the game on sale and i saw that there had been a bunch of negative reviews, went to the discussions page to see what was happening and now i am more confused now than i was earlier. i know the broad issue from what i've read (new devs? censorship), but i also kind of live under a rock. so i have been really in the dark on what has been going on. thanks.
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Showing 1-15 of 64 comments
Demaulicus Aug 7, 2023 @ 3:10am 
The current developers are most of the people from Lab Zero (former studio). The developers changed things regarding the game to align with the current dynamics of the world and personal views. Examples of this are Filia's outfit design which I am fine with but was confused on them only changing the color palette. The changes I am disappointed with are the Egrets armband removal and Big Band story change as it made these less meaningful to each story in my eyes. Maybe I get too invested in the story content and I dislike alterations to a story (to me this would be like the Anakin Skywalker vs Obi Wan fight fading to black the moment before Anakin got burned by the lava and the next scene was Obi Wan talking to Padmé Amidala). Again, This is just my perception and not everyone feels this way. In essence the developers are playing things safe even though things would have been fine even 10-20 years ago. Fair enough as they own the rights to the game.

However, People should be be informed about these changes and make a decision with said information. Not once have I told people not to buy the game. However, I wanted to ensure people were aware of the changes so they can make an informed decision whether to buy the game or not.

There have been people from both sides of the discussion that took things a little too far but for the most part this has been civil. Most just agree to disagree on the topic as it is more of a perception thing. In the end if people aren't happy there are other games to satisfy the fighting game need. At the end of the day even if I don't agree with someone on this I am not going to think any less of them as everyone should have the right to express their viewpoint in a civil manner.
Last edited by Demaulicus; Aug 7, 2023 @ 3:21am
RGS Aug 7, 2023 @ 4:57am 
The devs abused the TOS system which allows content alteration, by making alterations for personal beliefs rather than an actual reason, like it being a bug, a balancing patch or a copyright problem.

Normally this wouldn't be worrying because the fan backlash would make them reverse the changes, but they decided to be radio silence about the situation. Which is very problematic since it shows they are willing to remove content regardless of the customers.
Last edited by RGS; Aug 7, 2023 @ 4:58am
Tanoomba Aug 7, 2023 @ 5:21am 
2
It's much ado about nothing.

The devs updated their game with a few minor changes, whose total cumulative effect on the game is negligible at best. A group of entitled gamers obsessed with fighting a culture war they created decided to make this their new hill to die on. The truth is most of the game's player base either didn't notice the differences at all or don't care if they did. The game's fundamentally the same as it's always been, and it's as fun to play now as it was before the patch.
RGS Aug 7, 2023 @ 5:24am 
Originally posted by Tanoomba:
It's much ado about nothing.

The devs updated their game with a few minor changes, whose total cumulative effect on the game is negligible at best. A group of entitled gamers obsessed with fighting a culture war they created decided to make this their new hill to die on. The truth is most of the game's player base either didn't notice the differences at all or don't care if they did. The game's fundamentally the same as it's always been, and it's as fun to play now as it was before the patch.
You don’t know what entitled means.
greenraven22 Aug 7, 2023 @ 7:09am 
Originally posted by eldred:
i feel like i am about to open an entire can of worms, but can anyone explain to me what's has been happening? i just bought the game on sale and i saw that there had been a bunch of negative reviews, went to the discussions page to see what was happening and now i am more confused now than i was earlier. i know the broad issue from what i've read (new devs? censorship), but i also kind of live under a rock. so i have been really in the dark on what has been going on. thanks.

The two original developers who created Skullgirls have been forcibly removed from the company. Now a bunch of twitter activists currently own the rights to the game. And as such they are trimming and pruning content they feel is "immoral".

That's the shortest version of this entire debacle.
Tanoomba Aug 7, 2023 @ 7:19am 
Originally posted by RogerCop:
You don’t know what entitled means.
Believing devs can only update their games in ways you, personally, approve of is entitlement.
Believing Steam should allow you to tank a game's aggregate over your principled stance is entitlement.
Believing devs owe you a conversation about their decision so you can try to convince them to change their minds is entitlement.
Ommicron-Dagger Aug 7, 2023 @ 7:30am 
3
I'll try to provide a summary of things as best I can so you can have some hope of understanding all the drama and different sides of the argument, this took a while to type out, it's not all in perfect chronological order, so forgive me, but it's not my fault this game is apparently cursed:

-Game gets a chance to release on consoles, but the publisher and the devs have a falling out
-Dev's look for new publisher, behind the scenes the new publisher is deep in debt and stalls on payments that leads to the devs not having money and having to look for yet another publisher and ways to finance the studio down the line
-Dev's start a crowdfunding campaign that does alright for a while, at some point an infamous p*rn artist catches wind of the game and make's a p*rn parody of one of the characters and they recommend the game to their "fans", they get hired to work on the game some time afterwards as an animator, the crowdfunding campaign gets a massive influx of money and various bonuses are made and added to the game for free as a "thank you" to the crowdfunding backers
-Game gets censored for steam release, dev claims it was because a certain animation was left in game for consoles by accident, they promise there won't be further changes like that. No one really complains.
-Game get's censored again, dev's claim it's because some animations didn't meet their standards for what fan service should be, a few people complain that the art book got altered as well and that the earlier promise was broken, not to mention that it's strange considering a certain p*rn artist was involved with the game, their complaints are mostly ignored or laughed at.
-Game get's a voice line removed because the character that's being referenced was made by a fan who's suing for monetary compensation, players generally agree that fan was being a greedy idiot.
-Game get's picked up by yet another new publisher wanting to turn into a mobile game, they hire a new team to work on the mobile port, some people like the game, others criticize it for being a gacha game.
-Furry persona of the top competitive player gets added to the game with a chance to replace the default training mode instructor. Someone releases mods that allow players to choose which instructor they will have. Some users complain that the mod should be removed because allowing that character to be censored is bigoted. Others fire back that it's at least optional unlike the censorship the devs have done in the past.
-Lead artist, original creator of the game and co-funder of the studio "Alex" gets fired for being "difficult to work with", without much further explanation (as in they made a game while in college that would eventually be transformed into this game). They sue for wrongful termination, win the court case and receive a large sum of money, say they want to put it all behind them and go on to do their own thing. Fans speculate for a while what could be the cause, some believe they were just too slow and lax with deadlines, others think it has more to do with them pushing for fan service when the other devs are pushing for less fan service.
-Game get's red crosses replaced by magenta crosses because the dev's are affraid of the red cross suing, people are a bit disappointed but mostly everyone understands why the change was made.
-Lead programmer, studio co founder and creator of the engine the game runs on "MikeZ" becomes primary owner of the studio and effectively the boss since "Alex" has been kicked out. He makes a joke about Jorge Floyd on social media, sparking controversy. Some creepy texts between them and a cosplayer get leaked, more controversy happens. Several employees accuse him of sexual miss conduct at work and quit the studio in protest. After about two weeks of drama on social media "MikeZ" fires all remaining staff and the studio collapses.
-Publisher gives full reigns over the game to the mobile developers promising to push out new content in the future.
-Some of the employees from the original developer group that had quit in protest earlier go to form a new studio and the publisher allows them to partner up with the mobile devs to continue working on the game.
-MikeZ starts a lawsuit against the former employees who accused him of sexual misscon duct.
-Game get's magenta crosses replaced by shurikens, reception is a bit mixed since it changes the point of the original design and isn't needed as the previous change was already enough to solve the legal issues.
-Court documents from "MikeZ"s lawsuit start getting released, including evidence of messages retrieved from private chat servers showing several employees conspiring to get him kicked out of his position as the boss and plans to turn the studio into a worker owned co-opt, during those conversations the employees mention that they know he hasn't done anything wrong, but since he is autistic it's easy to miss interpret his behavior.
One of the conspirators is noted as having been caught making "inappropriate" art during work hours instead of working on the actual game. They conspire to keep several other things secret from the public including some special contact they have with their financiers who are supposedly on board with their plan to take control of the company.
There is also the complaint that texts leaked on social media in the past were meant to slander him as they were incomplete and missing messages that would give more context to the situation.
This is all an extremely tldr version of some of the documents you can view for yourself:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/10o6RoP1UopCl9l9_xq7L1k3TuKLzAsZJ/view
-Game get's an update the devs claim is made to reflect their values where some pantie colors are changed, some pantie shots are covered up more by skirts (the fan service crowd start losing their minds), excess skin in some scenes is covered up more by tentacles (many people feel this makes the sexualization worse), some bloody and gory scenes are censored (makes no sense since there are entire characters based around blood and gore), a scene of corrupt police brutality is censored (strange to censor a robocop reference and downplay the story because the victim is black), armbands are removed from in game supremacists (how does removing armbands make supremacists any less bad), combo hit names are altered to have less risque humor (who even had a problem with those joke names), an announcer voice pack that was a reward for the original crowdfunding backers is removed with no explanation, the devs state the changes are final and they will not be taking any feedback. The games official twitter account likes a post calling people complaining about the update creeps and offering free steam keys in exchange for positive reviews.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Skullgirls/comments/14r6g0c/skullgirls_liked_a_tweet_from_someone_who_giving/
A private conversation of one of the developers calling the removed content "dirty socks" gets leaked.
https://twitter.com/KMR_Studios/status/1678742712248332288
Some players start calling people complaining about the changes "child predators" and "nazis", some fire back asking why those people bought and played a game with CP in it where one of the artist made actual p*rn of an underage character for 10 years and didn't report it to steam?
The sudden influx of reviews causes steam to flag recent reviews as off-topic for almsot a month (regardless if they are positive or negative). The influx of mostly negative reviews continues.
Welcome to the current day. Hope you're all caught up.

Originally posted by RogerCop:
Originally posted by Tanoomba:
It's much ado about nothing.

The devs updated their game with a few minor changes, whose total cumulative effect on the game is negligible at best. A group of entitled gamers obsessed with fighting a culture war they created decided to make this their new hill to die on. The truth is most of the game's player base either didn't notice the differences at all or don't care if they did. The game's fundamentally the same as it's always been, and it's as fun to play now as it was before the patch.
You don’t know what entitled means.
How can you say that, clearly I'm an entitled gamer because I live in a third world ♥♥♥♥ hole where just mentioning freedom of speech is an easy way to get a good laugh out of people and all I'm asking is to at least have my one escape from reality (videogames) left alone, while getting silenced and gaslight online as well by people who know what I should consider "minor" changes or not.
Last edited by Ommicron-Dagger; Aug 7, 2023 @ 7:37am
RGS Aug 7, 2023 @ 7:30am 
Originally posted by Tanoomba:
Originally posted by RogerCop:
You don’t know what entitled means.
Believing devs can only update their games in ways you, personally, approve of is entitlement.
Believing Steam should allow you to tank a game's aggregate over your principled stance is entitlement.
Believing devs owe you a conversation about their decision so you can try to convince them to change their minds is entitlement.
I'll repeat myself, you don’t know what entitled means.
Tanoomba Aug 7, 2023 @ 7:38am 
Originally posted by RogerCop:
I'll repeat myself, you don’t know what entitled means.
I gave you three unambiguous and straightforward examples of entitled narratives that form part of the backlash. Shouting "Nuh-uh!" doesn't contradict that.
RGS Aug 7, 2023 @ 7:41am 
Originally posted by Tanoomba:
Originally posted by RogerCop:
I'll repeat myself, you don’t know what entitled means.
I gave you three unambiguous and straightforward examples of entitled narratives that form part of the backlash. Shouting "Nuh-uh!" doesn't contradict that.
1. Never made such claim.
2. Never made such claim.
3. This is a seller - customer relationship, communication regarding the product is incredibly important and the norm
Last edited by RGS; Aug 7, 2023 @ 7:43am
salamander7688 Aug 7, 2023 @ 7:57am 
Ah, comrade..

You did not buy game, you buy license to play what developer give you.

Today, maybe Lada Niva, tomorrow maybe Trabant 500.. :steamhappy:
RGS Aug 7, 2023 @ 8:01am 
Originally posted by salamander7688:
Ah, comrade..

You did not buy game, you buy license to play what developer give you.

Today, maybe Lada Niva, tomorrow maybe Trabant 500.. :steamhappy:
It's sad, the license implementation was never made for this ends as Steamworks shows the actual uses steam had in mind.
Last edited by RGS; Aug 7, 2023 @ 8:01am
salamander7688 Aug 7, 2023 @ 8:21am 
Originally posted by RogerCop:
Originally posted by salamander7688:
Ah, comrade..

You did not buy game, you buy license to play what developer give you.

Today, maybe Lada Niva, tomorrow maybe Trabant 500.. :steamhappy:
It's sad, the license implementation was never made for this ends as Steamworks shows the actual uses steam had in mind.

Digital goods - where you'll own nothing and be.
Last edited by salamander7688; Aug 7, 2023 @ 8:33am
TL;DR:

Devs changed a bunch of things on the game
Also removed a voice pack that was a 700k stretch goal for an indie go go campaign
And edited the artbook wich should be the concept art

People are pissed about point 1 and absolutely raging over 2 and 3.
76561199530521282 Aug 7, 2023 @ 11:00am 
Originally posted by NachosAndCheeezzz:
TL;DR:

Devs changed a bunch of things on the game
Also removed a voice pack that was a 700k stretch goal for an indie go go campaign
And edited the artbook wich should be the concept art

People are pissed about point 1 and absolutely raging over 2 and 3.
Another little detail to add is that this kinda was the straw that broke the camels back.
The community was already kinda angry since the MikeZ court papers came to light 2 years ago.
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Date Posted: Aug 7, 2023 @ 1:51am
Posts: 64