Microwave transmitters

[cptsavarus]

Thinking about energy collection & distribution, does anyone else think it'd be cool to be able to "beam" power between 2 separate grids in the form of microwaves? I believe the technology already exists today, albeit in an early-ish stage of development. Makes sense that in another 60 years or so it might be quite commonplace.

Sateelite networks collecting solar energy & transmitting it to a base on a planet perhaps... or ground based collectors transmitting to a relay satellite to power orbital defences.
Discrepancies between a transmitter & receiver could be used as an advanced form of RADAR to detect objects... or even as a kind of energy weapon. Microwave a spoon and your kitchen gets destroyed... microwave a space ship... !!

[Jappards200]

1. Beaming power from one source to another is great, I no longer have to put power gen on my drones. A lot of people agree upon this, but the elaboration differs(which is always).
2. As for doppler radar(the technique of using the doppler effect and microwaves), the radar should be distorted the farther the range is. Because you shouldn't be able to see what kind of and how much weapons a ship has, only it's basic shape, size, speed and direction it is going, that way, you would tell the difference between a battlecruiser and a basic mining ship, but not the difference between a light fighter and a miner.

The Reason Why:
Antennas are actually distorted in real life by the cosmic background radiation, the devs want features to be as realistic as possible and use unrealistic things such as gravity generators only when it is absolutely absolutely neccesary. The cosmic background radiation is the leftover heat from the big bang.

3. Energy weapons are not going to happen because they aren't realistic. also: that is not how a microwave works.

The Microwave oven works, because the microwaves bounces around and makes them vibrate because the water molecules act like little magnets which turns into heat. The reason a spoon makes your microwave explode is because the metal makes sparks which makes a plasma form(forth state of matter where metal is ionized), because the metal heats up very very quickly.

Also: These 3 things should not all come from 1 block, because that is very impractical.

[cptsavarus]

You might want to check up on that last part. Energy weapons are indeed extremely realistic. A powerful laser can be used as a type of energy weapon (I use them at work to cut metal, like space ships are made of) and SE now has laser antennas, proving that lasers are realistic enough to have in the game. Concentrated microwave energy is no different, except in how it affects the thing its directed at. Granted, the power that would be required to generate, concentrate and focus a powerful enough beam of microwaves to such a fine point over such a long distance as to make it useful as a weapon would be restrictive... expensive... and perhaps economically unviable... but not unrealistic, since the technology to do it already exists.
A microwave oven cannot be a weapon because its field of emission is too general. For microwaves to be used as a weapon they must be chanelled, just like a bulllet, just like a laser, into a narrow & confined stream that can be aimed. As I understand it, this is done by way of a powerful electromagnetic field not unlike those generated in particle accellerators. Those already exist too by the way.

I do agree that not all of the functions I suggested should come from one block. THAT would be unrealistic. I was simply giving some examples of possible applications for microwave energy as a game dynamic or resource.

In terms of using microwaves as a method of detection, I also mostly agree that no, you wouldn't be able to tell more than the general size & profile shape of a mark, though you would be able to distinguish between certain material compositions, since different elements reflect & absorb microwaves uniquely in the same way they do RF signals as with RADAR. You might for example be able to tell heavy armour from light armour due to the various trace metals in their alloys or the abundance of carbon in their molecular structures.

To address your other points... RF (not antennas) gets distorted by electromagnetic interference and natural deterioration of frequency & wavelength through loss in efficiency of impotus (force), much like a ripple in a pond, water down a pipe, an electrical current down a wire or a tired runner on a track. I think you might have heard "the cosmic background radiation" in an episode of Star Trek or something because you don't seem to know what it is. There are many kinds of radiation in the background & not all of them are detrimental to radio waves, which are themselves a form of radiation. Microwaves are also a form of radiation and some of them are in the "background", wherever that is. Did I mention that?
Heat left over from the big bang? Yes, heat can be a form of radiation insofar as it's a form of energy that can be transmitted via a medium. It isn't however the only kind of radiation.
As for "the big bang"... it'd be just as convenient to say god did it... they're both popular theories and they're both equally unproven. To put stock in either for the sake of a computer game is... unrealistic... wouldn't you say?!

[Jappards200]

I have seen some videos of someone using a laser to pop party balloons, but strangely enough the devs don't find them realistic at all, well they are being used to explode missiles on military ships. But I do think energy weapons would be slower(as in damage), than si-fi like Stargate Sg-1. But why Mazers(lasers made out of microwaves)? You can detonate a small nuclear bomb and concentrate the radiation into a beam, there was even a US cold war project that never made it off the drawing board. The idea was to detonate a nuclear bomb and concentrate the beams and fire them at nuclear war heads to explode them high up.


The Cosmic background radiation is proven to exist, but the heat leftover from the big bang == microwaves in this case, scientist say that the temperature of the early universe was so hot that there must have been some left over and they think the cosmic background radiation is the leftover. In fact if you purt your television on a channel that doesn't exist(on those televisions where you see that pixely noise), 1% of the noise you see is the cosmic background radiation.

If you want to know more:
http://www.universetoday.com/79777/cosmic-background-radiation/

The big bang is only a model for the creation of the universe. It doesn't disprove the existence of a god, some theists believe god created the big bang. Theists allow a god to exist without a cause, but exclude the universe from it. So the big bang without a cause is equally viable.

About that laser cutter: How does it go through steel?

[cptsavarus]

It's not that laser weapons aren't realistic. They are... they're just not very feasible due to the incredibly high amounts of energy they require to be effective; and as you say, why bother when there are easier, more economical ways of causing more damage. The feasibility of lasers (or microwaves) as a weapon wont outstrip that of conventional projectiles & explosives until such a time as the power source can be made compact enough to be easily transportable. Hydrogen fuel cells, cold fusion and particle colliders are all avenues of research that are being persuied in an effort to make that possible; not just for the purposes of using lasers as weapons either. The applications are boundless if & when technologies like these can be perfected.

Pretty sure I've seen the same video with the party balloons & that's just a toy. More powerful lasers require highly efficient cooling systems. Most industrial cutting tools use CO2 or liquid Argon or Nitrogen to prevent the laser overheating. Overheating would cause irreprable damage to the lenses, thereby distorting, refracting or nullifying the beam altogether. This of course throws the doors open to all kinds of horrendous accidents on all kinds of scales (Not to mention, lenses are stupidly expensive!)
So a powerful laser means massive pressure vessels and serious pumping gear to store & distribute the coolant, which itself requires a lot of power, as do the electronic systems that control & regulate it. In space a delicate & hazardous system like that could very quickly turn into an enormas liability. Simply put, the size, cost and inherrant dangers combined far outweigh the benefits. That doesn't make it unrealistic, just not worth it.

I still think you need to read up more on this cosmic radiation thing... it's a meaningless buzz-phrase... an easy way for very clever people to explain something complicated to those who don't share their understanding of it. Microwaves don't by dint mean heat and heat similarly doesn't mean microwaves. The two are very different forms of energy and not to be confused. As for TV static... the other 99% you didn't mention is local radiation. Radiation is everywhere & it comes from a lot of sources. To arbitrarily call all radiation "the radiation" shows a deep lack of understanding of what radiation is, which is to say, the transfer of energy from one place to another via a medium or the conversion of energy from one form into another. Energy has many forms and many methods of transfer. Labeling them all as one serves no purpose, is highly unscientific and dare I say, is a negative influence on education. Anyone using phrases like these in an effort to educate others really ought to be shot for watering down the facts.

Lasers through Steel? It's quite simple really. More or less the same principal as lighting a fire using the sun & a magnifying glass.
A powerful light source (bulb or diode) is the sun and a series of incredibly finely crafted lenses (like a telescope) is the magnifying glass. Light (and therefore potential heat) leave the source and are channeled & focussed through the various lenses into a beam that does not distort over its focal length. All lasers have a predefined focal length, which is the distance to which they can be projected with zero distortion or fragmentation. The focal length is determined by the output of the power source & light source, the quality & curvature of the lenses and how many are used.. Industrial cutting lasers have very short focal lengths so as to maximise the efficiency of energy on target (the material being cut) while simultaneously minimising the draw on the power source. This would be like holding the magnifying glass really close to te thing you're setting on fire.
To set light to a bit of paper the temperature must reach 233 degrees celsius at the focal point. To begin to melt steel, temperatures must reach around 1370-1500 degrees celsius, depending on the carbon content and the presence of any alloyed metals in the steel.
To cut right through the steel, temperatures have to increase concordantly with the thickness of the workpiece. The thicker the steel the highter the temperature needed to cut through it. Metling the steel is not enough however. You also need a force to push away the molten metal in order to prevent undesirable pooling. To do this, coolant is often used in a high-pressure jet aimed around the focal point of the laser. This could be pressurised air, C02, LOX, LN, de-ionised water, whatever. This ensures a very clean, very precise cut through the entire thickness. A similar effect is created by a plasma cutter, though those dont use light but rather direct electrical current in the form of a powerful arc. Portable plasma cutters rely on gravity to make the molten metal in the cut fall away, instead of forcing it away using coolant.

Sorry it's a long one again! I hope I'm making sense!

[Jappards200]

First of all, You do make sense(also: I attend a school of higher general secondary education at the more scientific subjects).

Let me explain to you why the cosmic background radiation is microwaves and heat leftover from the big bang. All matter sends out electromagnetic radiation, higher temperature == fotons with more energy, meaning higher up into the spectrum(not the cause for the sun). The early universe was very hot which makes it set out a lot of radiation. Light travels at a finite speed of 299 792 458 m/s. When you are looking at the stars, you are looking into the past, because time did not have time to reach us yet. The universe is also constanly expanding, which streches out the light to lower wave lengths and into microwaves. Does that make sense to you?

[cptsavarus]

Haha! Yes and no. Your information is accurate but you're going off on a complete tangent with this... and there's that buzz phrase again!

So we've established that microwaves are essentially stretched radio waves and that they're part of the electromagnetic spectrum and by extension are comprised of subatomic particles that are exchanged between every known particle of matter throughout the universe as far as we're able to tell. The universe is expanding or so research indicates and light travels at a universally constant speed. This is all good and correct to the best of human knowledge but it's not what's in dispute.

The cosmic background radiation... why call it that? I means nothing. If the specific type of radiation you're discussing is microwaves call it microwaves, if it's heat call it heat, if its frogs & toads call it frogs & toads. Truth is what you're talking about is not just heat and its not just microwaves and it's certainly not just frogs & toads; it's the entire EMS! That's like calling all frequencies of light "the cosmic light radiation" or the resonant frequency of all farts "the cosmic fart sound radiation"...It has no meaning because it means everything all at once. To refer to everything all at once is as lazy as pinning the whole thing on some imaginary deity or other.

And this big bang again. It's a cure-all theory, a best guess, a crutch to not having to ask or explain why or how.
It's god wearing a lab coat and it's driven by mans inability to percieve the concept of infinity when he & all he knows is finite. We're naturally biassed to see what we want to be true and to see coincidence where there is none... and as long as we are we will theorise that even our craziest imaginings might be proven factual... and those theories will be popular and they will be taught as if a safe assumption. That doesn't make them so.
At the very least this theory is not a quantifiable variable. Maybe some day we'll learn a new trick and it will be but for now it's not. Therefore it's completely irrelevant to any discussion about what IS quantifiable and cannot be used as any kind of datum or foundation on which to lay further assumption or experiment.

As much as I'm enjoying the discussion though, a games forum probably isn't the best place for it, so to bring this back to the topic in hand, I fail to see how any of this information about microwaves & radiation relates to the realism of simulating microwave energy as a resource in a computer game. I think we've very much established that microwaves are real and that the technology to generate and manipulate them is also real... so what exactly is it that's unrealistic about having them in a game that's set 62 years in the future? Beam weapons be damned, I'm talking about giving players the means to create whatever they can imagine... if they want a microwave gun & don't mind it being stupidly huge & expensive and doing very little damage then why not? We had rotors, we made rotary piston doors with them. They were massive & ugly & unrealistically expensive but we did it because we could. Why curtail what can be done in the game if it can be done in the world?

By the way & for the record, I'm non-religious & believe only what can be proven. I use the comparrison of god because they're both equally self-substantiating arguments that require no tangible evidence in order to be believed. I mean no offence to either side of that particular debate and have no desire to enter into that one at all.

[Jappards200]

Would interfering with the microwaves as stealth technology be a viable option? Interference devices measure the pattern of doppler radar for a few seconds then set out microwaves to interfere, but the doppler radar changes the wavelength and the pattern of the changing wavelength often(makes sense from a military perspective). This makes Interference devices not very relieable. These Interference devices will measure the microwaves again and the process starts all over again.

[cptsavarus]

If microwaves became a feature in the game then sure, why not use them as a form of camouflage if you can. There's any number of applications for them, just like there is solar energy or the new laser antennas, pistons, rotors, etc
It's the idea of being able to harness & distribute them that interests me most. The possible applications would depend on what tools (IE function blocks) we ended up with.
For any kind of interference / stealth tech to be really useful in game though we'd need some kind of graphical readout, like a scanner box on the HUD, otherwise it'd mean having to interpret loads of complex numbers in the control panel or program it in ourselves to appear on an LCD screen, then get out of the cockpit & go look at it every time we wanted to see if something was within range.

Talking about stealth tech, without a graphical scanner at the moment the only real way to find an object that's not broadcasting a beacon is to look for it visually... so what about some kind of visual image projector that takes a 2D motion capture from a camera on one side of a ship & projects it convexly on the opposite side? 6 cameras, 6 projectors and your ship vanishes from sight in a sphere of projections. I think they first tested that during the cold war, though it wasn't that practical since ships didn't need to be in visual range to kill one another thanks to the advent of cruise missiles, nuclear submarines & aircraft carriers. I'm sure I've seen that suggested here before & I know people are using holoprojectors to do something similar... just it doesn't work that well & uses blueprints instead of camera images.

[Jappards200]

Adaptive camouflage is a viable option(I think I saw it in a James Bond movie with a car turning invisible), cloaks like in si-fi aren't realistic(Or are they? If they where, they wouldn´t be perfect and you wouldn't be able to look around yourself). But invisiblily will cause problems if your whole fleet is invisible(with every ship using it's own device). They might even crash against each other.

[cptsavarus]

Yep, I remember that film! From what I recall the cars body actually displayed the images on it, something like a 360 degree screen. Maybe that could be possible already using existing LCD panels & some clever scripting (?)
Cloaking devices like in Star Trek, etc might be possible one day but like you say they'd work 2 ways. I think the idea is they're a kind of localised gravity field that distorts space around the ship rather than trying to make the ship itself physically invisible. I mean it's only fiction but if that was the case then it'd make sense that you couldn't fire weapons or EM signals through the cloak, as they'd be distorted by the field too.
I guess if you lost your fleet you'd need some way to locate & track them... maybe cars have the answer to that too... press a button on a keyfob and the car beeps back at you. I think in America they call that game Marco Polo... except with a pair of computers beeping at each other rapidly the process would be much faster. Similar to RADAR perhaps but instead of bouncing off the target the signal would be received by it, altered to include a marker and returned to source. Again like you say though, that wou;dn't work with an EM cloak but it would with a visual one.