My concerns around Space Engineers 2

[terry309]

Not every game needs to have a sequel and Space Engineers is one of them. I do understand why people are excited about the new building mechanics and the new engine may be cool and all but there is a problem with creating a new game.

Space Engineers has a community and if Space Engineers 2 comes out it will inevitably cause a split between the communities of 1 & 2.

People who were looking forward to further updates and DLC in SE 1 will be disappointed to see it being dropped in favor of 2, some people are happy enough with the content of SE1 as it is but would like more updates and DLC to flesh it out more.

Meanwhile Space Engineers 2 will attract a new crowd who didn't play the first, meaning Space Engineers 1's community will stagnate, the Early Access of SE2 is going to be horrendous if Space Engineers 1's Early Access was anything to go by, we can expect a nightmare of an experience that many of us will not want to partake in and would rather stick with the original but without new DLC and updates, there's nothing to keep players interested so the community around the game will begin to decline.

It's like if they made Minecraft 2, could you imagine how stupid that would be? The reason Minecraft is so popular to this day is because there's only one Minecraft, everybody knows it, most people have access to it, it's the only one so it's the thing people go to.

If they released Minecraft 2, it would split the community in half and would make it harder for players to connect between players.

On top of this, there's no confirmed way to convert blueprints from SE 1 to SE 2. There are still a lot of works confined to SE 1 that will be forgotten about. People can still download ships made 10 years ago today and use them. If SE 2 releases, all the old content becomes forgotten.

It just feels like the only reason for SE 2's existence is simply because KEEN SWH desperately need more money, not so much we need SE 2. Everyone here is able to make amazing stuff with what there is already and while the improvements may be cool, they aren't needed to make great stuff, so not everyone is going to buy SE 2, but those people still want more content in SE 1, they want more DLC and stuff and will gladly pay for it, they do not want a new game.

I fear this may lead towards a Bannerlord fiasco where the player base will be split on playing the newer game and the older game and the older game stagnates while the newer game doesn't gain as much attention as the older game because it's not a new thing like SE was at the time. Sure SE could be considered just Minecraft in space but as we all know it's so much more than that and it was revolutionary in a way when it first released in alpha. SE 2 isn't revolutionary. You will get your influencers, you will get your new people in the short term sure but as we all know, SE is a niche. The people who bought SE either stuck with it or dropped it, those who dropped it will be lost customers, they won't buy SE 2 because they know what to expect, the only people who will buy SE 2 are the people who already bought SE 1 because regardless of engine changes and improvements, it's still the same game fundamentally and still caters to the same audience, so growth potential is going to be limited.

And if this is the case then... Space Engineers 2 will end up being another Medieval Engineers, a cash grab that never gets finished.

[Ruby]

Keen quite a while ago inveted a lot of money into creating a new game engine VRage 3? because current engine is not enough and it's simply impossible to upgrade current game. So they did it, because player asked for. Also, you may noticed that they also announced some updates for SE 1 and also continued to support it once they began to work for a new engine. And sfter alfa of SE 2 will realise, it will takes a few years to beta and for a final release. So don't worry much about it.

[CrimsonKNight_05]

Originally posted by terry309:

Not every game needs to have a sequel and Space Engineers is one of them. I do understand why people are excited about the new building mechanics and the new engine may be cool and all but there is a problem with creating a new game.

Space Engineers has a community and if Space Engineers 2 comes out it will inevitably cause a split between the communities of 1 & 2.

Who are you to limit KEEN Software's initiative to create SE2 under Vrage3 Platform? If its inevitable that SE1 would die, then there's nothing you can do to it... Its seems KEEN's Good management, and the DLCs have paid for the new much better game engine and we are getting it.

A new Arch will arrive and its "SE2". if you don't want to go aboard it, then that's you...
We will board it and have new adventures awaits us there...

Originally posted by terry309:

On top of this, there's no confirmed way to convert blueprints from SE 1 to SE 2. There are still a lot of works confined to SE 1 that will be forgotten about. People can still download ships made 10 years ago today and use them. If SE 2 releases, all the old content becomes forgotten.

This is the only part that concerns me a lot... I just want to bring my old ship that have constantly upgrade up to today, that became my home in the game... I'm so quite touch to it... along DLC blocks and skins on it...

Originally posted by terry309:

It just feels like the only reason for SE 2's existence is simply because KEEN SWH desperately need more money, not so much we need SE 2. Everyone here is able to make amazing stuff with what there is already and while the improvements may be cool, they aren't needed to make great stuff, so not everyone is going to buy SE 2, but those people still want more content in SE 1, they want more DLC and stuff and will gladly pay for it, they do not want a new game.

Every company needs money to keep afloat... They will always have to innovate new things... bring SE in new platform is an open opportunity for both KEEN, and players to enjoy the game with a powerful engine that surpass the old one... It open new doors for new features that was not possible in SE1. I would love a sequel.

[Dan2D3D]

Hi, keep in mind the SE Devs go with the community since the beginning where the game was supposed to be space Sandbox only so no planets.
+
They added more to SE by reading the community vote feedbacks on their support Portal.
+
SE2 got the most votes in the survey where 5000 players participated.
+
Game Devs must stop at some point especialy for not adding all the most wanted features to only one game, their Job is to create more games.

That said, I recommend to tell them about what you think, that is much better than telling players only, in my opinion.

-> Click "Submit Feedback" on the Support Portal to have a SE Programmer testing the bug for you and be able to chat with you.

https://support.keenswh.com/spaceengineers/pc
(create "Bug report" or "Request help"(Private) or "Feedback"(Petition) on the Portal)

Ref.:
General Information - Useful Links - FAQ Pin 📌
https://steamcommunity.com/app/244850/discussions/0/4622335767039372629/

[carl.wear]

One problem.

Legacy software.

I have heaps of old games that are still good but I can't run anymore because they won't run on win 10.

Operating systems, drivers, technology keeps changing but there becomes a point where they don't want to make things backwards comparable anymore.

How long until MS windows will no longer run the engine SE runs on because MS doesn't want to support it anymore?

How long before newer graphics cards won't run the older game engines?

Unfortunately there is a point where its better to re-write the game for newer technology than to keep trying to make the original work.

[CaveDweller]

Originally posted by carl.wear:

One problem.

Legacy software.

I have heaps of old games that are still good but I can't run anymore because they won't run on win 10.

Operating systems, drivers, technology keeps changing but there becomes a point where they don't want to make things backwards comparable anymore.

How long until MS windows will no longer run the engine SE runs on because MS doesn't want to support it anymore?

How long before newer graphics cards won't run the older game engines?

Unfortunately there is a point where its better to re-write the game for newer technology than to keep trying to make the original work.

I'm probably just repeating what you said, and I apologise if that's the case, though I do agree with you. Progress just for the sake of progress, is one thing. Progress for the purpose of staying relevant and competitive is another. Evolution is a perfect example of this. If animals ( people, companies etc.) don't evolve to various changes, they won't adapt. If they don't adapt, they won't survive. That's just life in general, never mind the world of business

[``;..;´´]

Originally posted by carl.wear:

One problem.

Legacy software.

I have heaps of old games that are still good but I can't run anymore because they won't run on win 10.

Operating systems, drivers, technology keeps changing but there becomes a point where they don't want to make things backwards comparable anymore.

How long until MS windows will no longer run the engine SE runs on because MS doesn't want to support it anymore?

How long before newer graphics cards won't run the older game engines?

Unfortunately there is a point where its better to re-write the game for newer technology than to keep trying to make the original work.

You are so wrong here. I play any game, even older games, 80s, 90s, early 2000. They run fine in modern Windows and Hardware. I'm using Win10 and Win11.

Sure you may need a patch, a library, or dosbox or something else to run the game but they run fine.

[jamesskaar]

if keen twilights se1 with a clear upgrade path, at a lower cost than buying the game at retail, which should include dlc upgrades... it won't be all that bad. i mean, there's a ton of money thrown away if we move along to the new version, we already have a functional, if imperfect space engineers, we can find a way to run it for another 30 years if there's no simple upgrade path.
if i move along to se2, i will have no reason to keep se1 in my library, except that i paid for dlc, if the dlc isn't migrated(even at a nominal fee dlc upgrade fee), instead of just being given the upgrade, i've wasted that money. if i don't throw that money to the wind, i'm in on se2. paying all that money again for essentially the same game ain't in the cards.

[Supweem Weedah]

Whos to say they wont do what CSGO did and just merge it all together?

[AeQuArTz]

I thought I heard the devs were working on (or currently have) a blueprint converter that would allow you to bring SE1 builds into SE2

[DivineEvil]

SE1 is literally over 10 years old. Surely you understand why it needs a sequel...

[umop-apisdn]

Originally posted by terry309:

It's like if they made Minecraft 2, could you imagine how stupid that would be? The reason Minecraft is so popular to this day is because there's only one Minecraft, everybody knows it, most people have access to it, it's the only one so it's the thing people go to.

Indeed.

Originally posted by DivineEvil:

SE1 is literally over 10 years old. Surely you understand why it needs a sequel...

Aye, and WoW is 20 years old... but the most recent expansion was in August of this year, and there is a rabid fanbase; nearly half a million people play it on a daily basis, with an estimated player base of over 150 million ( according to https://mmo-population.com/r/wow ).

Imagine what releasing a "World of Warcraft 2" would do to Blizzard, at this point, especially considering that it's a subscription-based game.

The worst part of this whole thing is that it's literally already costing Space Engineers sales.

Case in point: I, myself, am a brand new player (although I acquired the base game in early 2021), and I just figured out how to get a mining ship off the ground without smashing it into a billion pieces. I've put in more than 50 hours over the last 2 weeks, after picking it back up again; I'm having an absolute blast, and loving this game (despite a few frustrations with the UI and character physics, such as the nausea-inducing lack of jetpack attitude control that stopped me in my tracks when I first acquired it, and the fact that jumping forward with a knee-high obstacle in my path often sends me flying backward instead).

I would dearly love to buy all the DLCs so I have access to those cosmetic upgrades (even though I also know they're just "reskins" of existing in-game items)... but if SE2 is in the pipe, then why should I spend money on SE1?

If I were to purchase the existing DLCs at this point, I feel like I'd just be throwing money away for no real gain... and having now been "burned" by purchasing a product that is apparently about to be EOL'd, I'm not exactly keen to throw money at the new product, either. Sorry, devs, but Paradox Interactive beat you to that punch... and I've already listened to Pat Morita's Mr. Miyagi ("best way block punch: no be there when punch land").

Is there any assurance that SE1 is worth spending more money on at this point, or should I just walk away? If I walk away, why would I bother spending money on SE2, either? That would be effectively just begging to get suckered again.

... and how many people have already made this choice?

[Pembroke]

Originally posted by umop-apisdn:

Is there any assurance that SE1 is worth spending more money on at this point, or should I just walk away? If I walk away, why would I bother spending money on SE2, either? That would be effectively just begging to get suckered again.

I am sorry, but your reaction is illogical. Very likely you own other games than Space Engineers, too, and probably will buy some other games in the future.

So, consider the case where you are thinking of purchasing a new game from some other software developer than Keen. Do you think at that point whether you should abandon Space Engineers because you are getting this new game? Do you feel disgusted and betrayed by that old game if you buy that new game? Think carefully: Why NOT? How is the situation different?

Surely you are not saying that if some OTHER company than Keen were to create Space Engineers 2, then you would be quite ok with it? That does not make sense.

Because the SE1 and SE2 games are "so similar"? There are lots of games in the world that are similar to each other. Do you feel bad in game A made by company X, when you purchase a very similar game B made by company Y? That does not make sense, either.

So, what is the problem then? That the development of SE1 dries up and eventually stops? Yes, that will happen at some point. All games will meet that fate at some point. We know that and have always known that. It can, of course, be a sad moment especially if you love a game, but time goes on, and other games appear, some even similar to what you love to play. Like, for example SE2 could be such a new game.

Take a look at your Steam games list. I am quite sure you have there some old titles you have not played in years. Some of them probably were games that you enjoyed very much in the past when you played them. So, were they a "waste of money" since they are now dead and you no longer play them? Again: Why NOT?

Also consider this:
- Civilization I
- Civilization II
- Civilization III
- Civilization IV
- Civilization V
- Civilization VI
- Civilization VII
Why did they make all those sequels? Shouldn't they have continued to develop Civilization I? Do the Civ players feel "ripped off"? Why not?

TLDR: In the end a game is like a cup of coffee. You buy it and you enjoy it. If it was a good coffee, it was money well spent, even though the cup is now empty.

[Laserak]

Unified Grid System, nuff said.

[carl.wear]

My 2 main concerns about SE2 is
1) How much will it cost.
2) Will my 7+ year old computer run it. { somehow I doubt it. ( or if it does run, it will be soo slow, it will make a snail seem fast ). }

[Pembroke]

Originally posted by carl.wear:

2) Will my 7+ year old computer run it.

It won't. Ray-tracing... The "min req list" of SE2 may say what it says but it won't really be anything decent, so no.

I'm pretty sure you'll need to upgrade to the "next gen" GPU's. Of course, you'd have to do it anyway at some point, so maybe this is a good spot.

I have GTX 1080. Six years ago it was a good card. That was six years ago.