Environmental Hazards (PvE)

[drager55891]

This is a topic about the environmental hazards that the player can face and it looks at SE from the stand point of a survival game and not: living in space simulator, building program or PvP. If you want SE to be like those mention that is fine but I ask you to respect what I want from the SE as well. So please do not write statement to try to invalidate my opinion like saying I should have done my research before getting the game. Also, I will ignore how “realistic” something is for the sake of better game play. Also this is not about A.I. There are enough topics about that subject already. In some more my example I may a person can call an A.I. but to demonstrative point.

What Environmental Hazards part of PvE should do?
It should give player changing problems to deal with. It should not about just getting the ice and/or uranium.
It need to deal with different stages of the game. Stages like early game where the player are just working to get set up and strength their foot hold. Then the player works at getting better tools and then comes mid game and lastly late game. The need for ice is good at the start but after some times the it should reduce the time needed for it.
Prevent one answer for all problems. In early game of Minecraft, getting food is a huge focus, but later in the game it become less important with farms. The SE does something like minecraft’s food. With better mining tools getting the ice and/or uranium become quicker but the problem is getting enough ice and/or uranium is the only real challenge.

The current Environmental Hazards (PvE) in SE
Meteor
It is not good. It is something that you are ready for or else. It is more a punishment for the player not do some thing and not something that disturb the player for a bit. If you stay in the safe zone and be fine.
O2
It is just a ticking clock until more ice is needed. In other words it is just another thing to put onto a routine check list along with maintaining power.

What is needed to improve PvE for SE
PvE need remember that there are four type of crafts in SE. (suit, small ships, large ships and station.)
Keep some changing challenge
Prevent a one thing fix all

PvE and craft type
All the crafts are different of craft and each type should be look at.
For example:
Micrometeorite storms - tiny stone moving at high speed. Have there there a area that move in a directions that that damage small ship and suits. This make larger ship useful
Have something that make it dangerous to have large ship near asteroids for too long and make it become more dangerous on the mass of the ship and distant. This makes smaller ships still useful with micrometeorite storms on.
Power house block for station only. Block that better at doing some thing that even large ships. Refineries that are fast and/or refine a number of ores at the same time. A later game build that is a huge block that produce O2 out of seemingly nothing. Also have it where to convert large station to ship these block need to be in shutdown mode which take time to enter and leave. This would make it so the meteors that comes from random location still be dangerous to station and moving it may not be a great answer.

Changing Challenge
Doing the same thing again and again become boring after some time. There need to be changes to the problem that comes up.
Any one that play survival Minecraft must have defeated a creeper at one point or another. The challenge comes from fighting a creeper near a cliff or when mobs around.
Let say your stuck in a micrometeorite storm. That no problem just wait. What if O2 is running and you’re in a large ship that does not have drills on it. It is now a challenge that need to be dealt with and depending on how you made your ship it may be harder.

Prevent a one thing fix all
It is important that the player can not just do one thing to stay safe from all problem all the time. Even if you station is safe, large ship and small ships should not be perfectly safe was well.

[Relicz]

nice reading. good thread +1

[drager55891]

Originally posted by Relicz:

nice reading. good thread +1

Thanks I was hoping more would answer and start talking/

[VanGoghComplex]

Draeger,

I really like the idea of adding more hazards. Micrometeorite storms seem like a cool concept.

[raymazoida]

I'd add somthing like "ion storms" "CME's" call it what you will... basicaly an event that happens a couple of times a day in game (ie you would probably get one in a play session) which would basically have you do what real astronouts do during CMEs or large solar flares - run for the sheilded room. Being outised of this room (they could add a new armour type or just do it with heavy armour) would result in instant death for the player. Being in a small ship cockpit likeeise (As it's not shileded) Large ship would depent on the "cockpit" constuction.

The problem with any enviromental hazzard though is this

"In other words it is just another thing to put onto a routine check list"

All hazards will have workarounds, so it will ultimatly come down to implementing workaround, then you are just breaking up the "routine" of what you are doing to run for cover/refil o2/hide darkside roid whatever. They all go the same way. People think they are cool at first, then they get repetatvie, then they get bored

[Gekkibi]

First thing I'd like to say is that the time between the meteoroid showers (or any other environmental hazard) should be increased. Right now the lowest meteoroid shower happens every 15 or so minutes. This is the reason why I've not used in survival. I'd like to see "extremely rare" option where it happens every 5-10 hours. Yes, I'd like them to be that rare!

Secondly, enviromental hazards should create interesting and unique engineering problems. For example some kind of hazard that would temporarily decrease the efficiency of solar panels (just an example, not sure what would cause a sudden drop of solar irradiance). You would have to take this into account when calculating how many batteries you would require.

[arreclain]

+1 on all of this

[maninredagain]

When reading "PvE" I was halfway expecting another "give us enemies"-thread, but that was actually quite pleasant to read with some interesting points. Nice.

[raymazoida]

Originally posted by Gekkibi:

First thing I'd like to say is that the time between the meteoroid showers (or any other environmental hazard) should be increased. Right now the lowest meteoroid shower happens every 15 or so minutes. This is the reason why I've not used in survival. I'd like to see "extremely rare" option where it happens every 5-10 hours. Yes, I'd like them to be that rare!

Secondly, enviromental hazards should create interesting and unique engineering problems. For example some kind of hazard that would temporarily decrease the efficiency of solar panels (just an example, not sure what would cause a sudden drop of solar irradiance). You would have to take this into account when calculating how many batteries you would require.

Yeah meteors I'd like to range between 4 times a day, to max 1 an hour.

On the less sunlight... problem with this (As with most hazards) is you just overengineer, make 2x the panels (or 3 etc) or 2x the bateries... or just go Reactors, hazards always go the same way.... solution then everyone gets bored of them.

[Gekkibi]

Originally posted by mrraybaker:

On the less sunlight... problem with this (As with most hazards) is you just overengineer, make 2x the panels (or 3 etc) or 2x the bateries... or just go Reactors, hazards always go the same way.... solution then everyone gets bored of them.

It's not that simple in survival if you want to optimize everything. Yes, you could build twice as many solar panels and twice as many batteries, but that's going to be an overkill most of the time (just for the sake of argument, -25% efficiency for 15 minutes every 5 hours). That's a waste of components if one extra battery and clever programming that shuts down non-essential systems until the hazard goes away.

But like I said, that was only an example to demonstrate what I mean. Pure damage-inflicting hazards are boring.

[Foodoman]

In miner wars there was CME events were you had to hid in a shielded room, or behind an astroid to survive. This added quite a bit of suspence to the game. Imagine you're in a dog fight, you're winning, but you're also the furthest away from proper cover when your alarm sounds. Sure there were ways to counter it, but it wasn't always the best stragity. You could also use these storms to kill your enemies.

[drager55891]

Originally posted by maninredagain:

When reading "PvE" I was halfway expecting another "give us enemies"-thread, but that was actually quite pleasant to read with some interesting points. Nice.

Thanks. I seen more people wanting a challenge from survivial and I have my doubts that AI will fix it if they get it working.

Originally posted by mrraybaker:

All hazards will have workarounds, so it will ultimatly come down to implementing workaround, then you are just breaking up the "routine" of what you are doing to run for cover/refil o2/hide darkside roid whatever. They all go the same way. People think they are cool at first, then they get repetatvie, then they get bored

That is the nature of random event base games. They just happen. I still say in minecraft fight a creeper in water near lava is different that fighting a creeper when there are mobs around it. It not one hazards that works but a number that combinds that creates new problems.

Originally posted by Gekkibi:

Originally posted by mrraybaker:

On the less sunlight... problem with this (As with most hazards) is you just overengineer, make 2x the panels (or 3 etc) or 2x the bateries... or just go Reactors, hazards always go the same way.... solution then everyone gets bored of them.

It's not that simple in survival if you want to optimize everything. Yes, you could build twice as many solar panels and twice as many batteries, but that's going to be an overkill most of the time (just for the sake of argument, -25% efficiency for 15 minutes every 5 hours). That's a waste of components if one extra battery and clever programming that shuts down non-essential systems until the hazard goes away.

But like I said, that was only an example to demonstrate what I mean. Pure damage-inflicting hazards are boring.

What if there is also something like solar flares that can mess with your controls and the more solar panels you have facing the sun that more likely that it will happen. So pick less power during the drop or a greater risk from solar flare.

The most important I think it hazards system is to make it a rock paper scissor system.

For example:
small ships lose to Micrometeorite stroms
large ships beat Micrometeorite storms
large ships lose to place holder 1
. . .

[Honor Guard]

try the invader mod

[raymazoida]

Originally posted by Gekkibi:

Originally posted by mrraybaker:

On the less sunlight... problem with this (As with most hazards) is you just overengineer, make 2x the panels (or 3 etc) or 2x the bateries... or just go Reactors, hazards always go the same way.... solution then everyone gets bored of them.

It's not that simple in survival if you want to optimize everything. Yes, you could build twice as many solar panels and twice as many batteries, but that's going to be an overkill most of the time (just for the sake of argument, -25% efficiency for 15 minutes every 5 hours). That's a waste of components if one extra battery and clever programming that shuts down non-essential systems until the hazard goes away.

But like I said, that was only an example to demonstrate what I mean. Pure damage-inflicting hazards are boring.

After more than 700 hours in game I can count on my fingers the number of solar powered things I've made.... because Ur isn't particulary scarce or onerous to process as long as you have dedicated refineries for it. I'll find a roid to start by that has a big deposit even if I have to travel a long way for other stuff, lots of other people do the same... it's a cool "hazard" don't get me wrong, but would have minimal impact, and if it only needed 1 extra battery and a programable block to get around anyway? Script would be on WS in no time and 1 battery hardly costs the earth, so it wouldn't really add any difficutly to those making solar stuff anyway IMO.

Now if it cycled with somthing like a massive burst of activity that could overload your panels so you had to engineer both ways.... that would make it more intersting IMO.... but it always comes down to the same thing... once a solution is found everyone adopts it and its no longer a challange.

Take meteors.... yes they are OP... but.... you can build small and hide on the dark side of a roid... not hard you just have to give up solar power (not a big loss IMO) and they'll never bother you unless you build too big.

But what if they reduced the frequency but you could have them comming from anywhere?

That would be much more interesting IMO

[maninredagain]

Originally posted by mrraybaker:

[...]

But what if they reduced the frequency but you could have them comming from anywhere?

That would be much more interesting IMO

I guess then we'd just all dig into an asteroid and make the base inside. Not too difficult.

[raymazoida]

Originally posted by maninredagain:

Originally posted by mrraybaker:

[...]

But what if they reduced the frequency but you could have them comming from anywhere?

That would be much more interesting IMO

I guess then we'd just all dig into an asteroid and make the base inside. Not too difficult.

pretty much my point exactly.... we can hide better... providing you can find a roid big enough lol..... so what we'd need is something to stop you wanting to do this, or at least a danger for inside roids so you have to make a choice of which "limitation" you want to play with... and that is all you are really doing, picking a limiation