Gyroscopes.

[behemoth227]

So I'm building my first large ship from scratch in survival, and I can't seem to find a referance to how many gyroscopes I'll need. Is there a set number for decent manuverability? 1 for every 20,000 kg or something like that? 1 for every large thruster? Any advice would be welcome.

[Nighthaven]

Preferance I'D Say, and I havn't paid much attention to it yet in my Builds, but you can Set your ship's *Info* to show you the Center of mass, thats what you want to work with to get the most efficent position for your gyroscopes.

I havn't really looked into in what relation you want to place Gyroscopes with the Center of Mass myself, but it is always a good idea to use the Center of mass and evenly place Gyroscopes in relation to it, although I am unceartain if to close them close to it, or as far away as possible for max Efficency, I usualy place them on the furthest corners of my ships.

Noted, Gyroscope placement also Alters the Center of Mass, effectively moving it, which can be handy if you desire to move it without changing the Ships design.

[Neon]

Gryoscope placement has nothing to do with the center of mass. Just like thrusters. Put them anywhere, and they just work.

[BRRM]

vanilla the best result is around every 65,000kgs for decent turning. lower that number as you see fit. gyros work better when near the center of mass. that 65,000kg reference i use for large ships is that i like to feel the weight of the ship, if you know what i mean. i dont like fast turning bigs ships.

[TheLightLOD]

As BRRM says, place them near the center of mass(use k menu -> info to show center of mass on objects). Then just place more until the ship can turn at your desired turnspeed. Also having too much is no issue as they can be tweaked in the control panel to have less power.

[Skywolf*]

I noticed I do more accidental damage hitting stuff when turning than normal accidental impacts from moving - the torque / speed of turn is huge compared to truster acceleration. Because of this I rarely use more than 1 or 2 gyros on reasonable size ships - unless it's a fighter, miner or tug where turning speed / stability / power matters. I usually just start with 1 gyro, then add more if handeling is not what I want - most I ever used was 4 on a shaky miner. But YMMV

[MysticMalevolence]

More gyroscopes is relatable to higher sensativity.
Your gyroscopes can be placed anywhere, but be aware that they greatly change the center of mass (and therefore the point from which your ship turns).

[RamenAndVitamins]

In real life, torque is torque and it doesn't matter where you put a gyroscope. The ship can only rotate around its center of mass, no matter where the torque is applied. It's not like putting the gyroscope at the end of the ship is making it rotate around that point (which would require more energy, but that's not what happens). I suspect that it's the same in SE.

[VanGoghComplex]

Originally posted by Machina Bodyshotter:

In real life, torque is torque and it doesn't matter where you put a gyroscope. The ship can only rotate around its center of mass, no matter where the torque is applied. It's not like putting the gyroscope at the end of the ship is making it rotate around that point (which would require more energy, but that's not what happens). I suspect that it's the same in SE.

No, but it does matter. The ship won't rotate around the gyroscope when its far from center of mass, but the gyroscope will be less effective at rotating the ship around it's center of mass.

If you've ever had to do the math on using a torque wrench with an off-center adapter, you'll understand this in an intuitive way. =)

[Vargali]

also remember that if you design the shape and size first, that may or may not limit where and how many gyros you can add....after all you dont build a ship around a gyro, you build a ship to look good and or fill a certain roll.... having said that... i still have gyros to add to my 66 million kilo ship..... lolz

[RamenAndVitamins]

Originally posted by VanGoghComplex:

Originally posted by Machina Bodyshotter:

In real life, torque is torque and it doesn't matter where you put a gyroscope. The ship can only rotate around its center of mass, no matter where the torque is applied. It's not like putting the gyroscope at the end of the ship is making it rotate around that point (which would require more energy, but that's not what happens). I suspect that it's the same in SE.

No, but it does matter. The ship won't rotate around the gyroscope when its far from center of mass, but the gyroscope will be less effective at rotating the ship around it's center of mass.

If you've ever had to do the math on using a torque wrench with an off-center adapter, you'll understand this in an intuitive way. =)

No, the problem with a crow's foot adapter on a torque wrench is that it changes the overall lever arm length. The torque wrench isn't actually measuring torque directly; it's measuring a force, and displaying a torque that's calculated using the known length of the wrench. Change the length, change the torque.

Seriously, in real-world actual physics, applying a given torque to a rigid body results in exactly the same angular acceleration, no matter which point the torque is applied to. It's an immediate consequence of momentum conservation.

[VanGoghComplex]

Originally posted by Machina Bodyshotter:

Originally posted by VanGoghComplex:

No, but it does matter. The ship won't rotate around the gyroscope when its far from center of mass, but the gyroscope will be less effective at rotating the ship around it's center of mass.

If you've ever had to do the math on using a torque wrench with an off-center adapter, you'll understand this in an intuitive way. =)

No, the problem with a crow's foot adapter on a torque wrench is that it changes the overall lever arm length. The torque wrench isn't actually measuring torque directly; it's measuring a force, and displaying a torque that's calculated using the known length of the wrench. Change the length, change the torque.

Seriously, in real-world actual physics, applying a torque to a rigid body results in exactly the same angular acceleration, no matter which point the torque is applied to. It's an immediate consequence of momentum conservation.

Huh, I guess you're right. Been too long since I used a torque wrench like that, I guess. Either way, and I know this is anecdotal, but I've witnessed that gyros seem to be more effective when placed closer to center of mass.

[RamenAndVitamins]

Originally posted by VanGoghComplex:

Huh, I guess you're right. Been too long since I used a torque wrench like that, I guess. Either way, and I know this is anecdotal, but I've witnessed that gyros seem to be more effective when placed closer to center of mass.

I don't doubt it. Gyrosopes are quite massive, so if the physics engine in SE does an accurate calculation of moment of inertia, that could explain it. It's not that the gyroscope works more effectively based on its location, but moving mass closer to the center of mass will reduce the moment of inertia, making the ship inherently easier to turn. You'd get the same improvement by moving an equal mass of other parts closer to the center.

[VanGoghComplex]

Originally posted by Machina Bodyshotter:

Originally posted by VanGoghComplex:

Huh, I guess you're right. Been too long since I used a torque wrench like that, I guess. Either way, and I know this is anecdotal, but I've witnessed that gyros seem to be more effective when placed closer to center of mass.

I don't doubt it. Gyrosopes are quite massive, so if the physics engine in SE does an accurate calculation of moment of inertia, that could explain it. It's not that the gyroscope works more effectively based on its location, but moving mass closer to the center of mass will reduce the moment of inertia, making the ship inherently easier to turn. You'd get the same improvement by moving an equal mass of other parts closer to the center.

I hadn't thought of that, but it makes sense too. Good to know.

[Skywolf*]

I have not tested this, but I heard trust and gyros are applied to ship center of mass regardless of where trusters and gyros a placed.

That is, a ship with unsymetric off centeer trusters will experience no rotation.
(if so not RL physics, but what can you do?)

Was whatever wiki or post I read that on mistaken?

[EntropicMonk]

In case anyone missed it, here's an official video giving examples of gyroscope rotation.

Notice the ship rotates around the gyroscopes' center of mass.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZQX3ubnFuo


EDIT: This might be a little misleading, seeing how they used gyros to offset the mass in the video. After testing it to verify, it is indeed rotating around the center of the ship's mass, but the gyros have signifigantly altered the center of mass due to their weight.