War and Peace

[Captain Canard]

Similar to my last topic of "Offline or Online", I'm curious which of the two play-styles our merry little community prefers. Do you prefer chill building, exploration, and mining, or do you get bored with that and need the thrill of combat to keep motivated?

Me personally, I start off in the "peace" category, but eventually I'm itching for "war". I bring this up because a player pirate, who was hunting on our server, left us a couple of weeks back, and I confess, I'm kinda getting bored. I've had a couple of NPC skirmishes which help, but I miss the thrill of both being hunted and being the hunter.

There's an episode of Fraggle Rock called "The Preachification of Convincing John" (Google it) where a lesson is learned that destroying (by eating) Doozer constructions is actually a GOOD thing, because it gives the Doozers purpose and room to rebuild. One might argue that war on a PCU-limited server is similar - it gives builders like myself purpose, not just during the thrill of combat, but during the rebuilding and repairing and improving after combat. Of course I realize not everyone holds to this philosophy of gameplay (one might argue it's a bit too like the "Shadow Doctrine" of B5), so I'm interested in your thoughts below.

Oh, and I guess I should ask - if you are a war-monger, are you a protector / bounty hunter, or are you a pirate / griefer?

[ShadedMJ]

I've said before that the worst thing for me is trying to get stuff ready and that gets interrupted. Either AI ships attacking or players wanting PVP or even players asking questions or wanting to help, and I want none of it. Even the non-violent stuff is a big distraction because I feel I now have to entertain them or keep them from getting killed by the dangerous stuff. That's why I like single-player so much better.

[Dan2D3D]

Hi, I prefer to create than destroying ;)

BUT
I also liked to find all the Fighters and Warships solutions against the Vanilla enemy :
-> SPRT stations with Drone Spawners on all Planets, Moons and Space.
-> Warship solution to complete "Escort contract" at Trade station.
-> and solution against Factorum Faction in space.

For me it is more about finding the best Engineer solutions on all sorts of creations.

[Husker_85]

I think I would like combat better if it was less of a high risk/low reward sort of situation. Prototech has me a little interested in it again though because it offers a real reward. You could also go with a shields mod to reduce the risk

[MekaDovah]

Originally posted by Captain Canard:

Similar to my last topic of "Offline or Online", I'm curious which of the two play-styles our merry little community prefers. Do you prefer chill building, exploration, and mining, or do you get bored with that and need the thrill of combat to keep motivated?

Me personally, I start off in the "peace" category, but eventually I'm itching for "war". I bring this up because a player pirate, who was hunting on our server, left us a couple of weeks back, and I confess, I'm kinda getting bored. I've had a couple of NPC skirmishes which help, but I miss the thrill of both being hunted and being the hunter.

There's an episode of Fraggle Rock called "The Preachification of Convincing John" (Google it) where a lesson is learned that destroying (by eating) Doozer constructions is actually a GOOD thing, because it gives the Doozers purpose and room to rebuild. One might argue that war on a PCU-limited server is similar - it gives builders like myself purpose, not just during the thrill of combat, but during the rebuilding and repairing and improving after combat. Of course I realize not everyone holds to this philosophy of gameplay (one might argue it's a bit too like the "Shadow Doctrine" of B5), so I'm interested in your thoughts below.

Oh, and I guess I should ask - if you are a war-monger, are you a protector / bounty hunter, or are you a pirate / griefer?

What war?

As someone who just plays on his own, all I know is peace. Sure, AI drones, often spawning well off whatever path I'm on, so if I don't have weapons, I just keep flying and ignore them. The few times I do engage them, they're destroyed from a good distance away. I just inch forward and let guns auto-fire. I barely do anything and it feels like minor clean up.

The only exciting combat I ever see is if I stage it myself, but the drones often fly out of each other's range so it doesn't last long.

[Captain Canard]

Originally posted by Husker_85:

I think I would like combat better if it was less of a high risk/low reward sort of situation. Prototech has me a little interested in it again though because it offers a real reward. You could also go with a shields mod to reduce the risk

I hear what you're saying, though I do like the immersion of this - there is a real cost to going to battle, just like IRL. I've been in countless battles in other games like X4 and Elite Dangerous, but the most memorable battles are from Space Engineers, because so much was at stake. This is especially true on a multiplayer server, because there is no quick load button if you make a mistake. If you lose a ship, it's gone! Single-player is just too easy to reload and try again, so there isn't the same sense of fear, the same rush of adrenaline.

And like you (I think), I do not rush into combat prematurely. There is a very cautious and well-thought-out strategy to any combat engagements I initiate. Though I have rushed into situations that ended up in combat that I wasn't expecting. For example, a Factorum base that was booby-trapped, causing a fleet of Factorum ships to jump in while I was miles away from my own ship. My first indicator of trouble was the red "You're losing rep with Factorum" (sic) warning, which caught me totally off-guard. By the time I got back to my destroyer, it was destroyED. That was a very expensive ship to lose, and I was none too happy, but I rebuilt and learned from the experience. And like I said, it was memorable! And it was exciting.

In multiplayer, a bounty is a reward I like to claim, or just the satisfaction of punching a bully in the nose. These are not necessarily the best rewards (I can make more credits through acquisition contracts), but at least they give me a reason for combat. On the PvE side, Prototech is a nice reward, and even SPRT can have some decent loot to sell, especially early game. I got a good cache of platinum in my last earth base attack, which one cannot normally get planet-side without buying it.

As for shield mods, I love shield mods in my single-player game. My shields are weak enough that they only give me a slight advantage (not god mode), but it's nice to be able to last a little bit longer, especially when being flanked by multiple drones.

[MekaDovah]

Even with the choice, I would ultimately prefer peace over war. Because in my experience, PvP is too samey and uninteresting. Even ignoring how it seems to bring the worst out in people/attract the worst people, I find it too focused on optimization. Too restrictive.

I saw a video once where a small swarm of railgun drones basically destroy anything the user wants. Why build anything else when people can do that? Why do anything else?

The trailers of this game gave the impression of fleet battles, group action, teamwork, and base building. But in practice I hear stories of brick fighters, game engine exploits, arena fights, and overpowered drones. And that, to me, says once again, PvP has sucked any and all potential fun out of the game because there's no immersion, no imagination, only "winning."

And that all just sounds stale and boring to me.

[Ronin Planetary Industries]

It depends on the other players. I will gut a noob for resources if they set up shop on top of an ice lake and start drilling holes in it. If it's dumb, I will punish them. Someone just starting out... no.

I'll typically go in guns blazing around an unknown signal. You should not travel to one or stay near one if you don't want to fight.

[Captain Canard]

Originally posted by MekaDovah:

The trailers of this game gave the impression of fleet battles, group action, teamwork, and base building. But in practice I hear stories of brick fighters, game engine exploits, arena fights, and overpowered drones. And that, to me, says once again, PvP has sucked any and all potential fun out of the game because there's no immersion, no imagination, only "winning."

And that all just sounds stale and boring to me.

I hate metas, be it this game or Elite Dangerous or whatever the "custom build" PvP game is. It's one of the things I loved about original Overwatch- there was no meta, except maybe in team comps, but I never noticed it in the games I played.

Anyway, I resist the meta and play a different sort of of game. I rarely "win" PvP encounters, in that my enemy doesn't go down in flames. But I do often win in that I give my enemy a good challenge and something to think about. In Elite Dangerous, this was using stealth builds and hit-and-run tactics. I do something similar in Space Engineers, though stealth is a bit harder to pull off thanks to auto-targeting weapons... Still, I do pretty good at catching enemies unawares and putting enough holes in them to make them curse.

Of course this means no organized matches, but rather I take bounty contracts or just hunt enemies the old-fashioned way. That and I bait them and catch them in traps. Server pirates just cannot resist a beacon broadcasting something like "Starter Base" or "Humble Mining Ship". I guess I borrow some ideas from Captain Sheridan.

I've yet to be bored in my PvP engagements, just the opposite - my heart is usually racing due to how expensive losing is in this game. But thankfully I also like building, so as long as I don't lose my core base, I can handle a loss now and then.

[Captain Canard]

Okay, having covered war, let's talk peace. What do you folks do for challenges in your peaceful play-throughs? I know some of you just like designing things for the pure sake of designing things, but what about those of you who need purpose for your designs?

Me personally, I do struggle to find meaning for my designs outside of "war". There are a couple of exceptions - exploration and trade. The challenge / reward of exploration is finding bases, ships, and outposts I've never seen (hence why I like public servers), so that's usually down on planets. When it comes to trading, the challenge / reward is to make credits and "friends". I find the credits are more useful on a server, because they can buy zone chips and replacement spacecraft should I ever suffer a base raid. As for "friends", I'm mostly talking about making allies out of NPC factions. The bonus really isn't that great, so I see it more like a "score", which back in the old days of arcades was the motivation to play video games - earn the highest score. Credits can also be seen as a score of sorts.

Is there anything else in this game do WITH our ships and bases that I'm missing?

[Dan2D3D]

I focused on the needed stations, the needed "worker ships" and Jump Drive RIng in space to go to other planets/moons to build new Factories at their Rich ore spot(s).

The needed are :

Respawn station (on all planets, moons and space)
Refinery station
Factory stations each making specific commponent/parts
Gas stations
Recharging stations
Grarage / Building station
Welder / Grinder ship
Mining ship
Small scout ship to explore planets
Cargo ship
Respawn ship
Jump Ring in space

Note that all the above is to be made in double because for planet and space like space mining ship may be very different in space for example.

+
The needed Warships, Drones, Fighters, etch,,, but you said "let's talk peace" ;)

[Dan2D3D]

More about Peace gameplay :

-> I also can focus at making my Favorite Cargo ship made for all planets and space :
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3404282546
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3404281838
So to help me bring the needed to build a new Respawn station on all planets, moons and space.

[Captain Canard]

^ So your big-picture goal sounds like colonization. My problem is that I get hung up with the WHY am I colonizing this solar system? I think it would be more motivational if there was a population to build all this for, like a City Skylines kinda game, where their happiness is a measured factor that we work to increase. Creating a solar system of empty ships and buildings just doesn't click with me personally.

[ShadedMJ]

Originally posted by Captain Canard:

... let's talk peace.

:) Made a ship that could go from earthlike surface to space without any thrusters.

The perpetual motion grid isn't quite ready yet.

I think I have a grid-a-pult somewhere.

Edit : Recently shot myself like a bullet to go through earthlike

[Dan2D3D]

Not really colonization but more building challenges as to have different gameplay and be able to survival at the Easy, Medium and Hard Biomes.
+
Find the best RIch ore spots of all planets and moons, we must move at some point that is when there is no more ores and why not go on other planets to have more to do.

Doing so I have noticed it is worth the trip to go build :

- Ammo Factory at the Rich dried out lake of Pertam (the one full of magnesium).

- Europa is the best place to build an automatic Gas station that collects ice and transform to H2 automatically.

- Titan is the best start of the game when you want to have all the needed faster.

- Know where to search to find complete sphere of Uranium that give most Uranium ore.

- Find the auto-airlock solution on Alien planet that is not the same as space.

- Etch ...

Doing the above give new challenges at making different Rovers, different Mining Rigs, different ships, different airlocks, different stations, etch...

[Dan2D3D]

I will add :

And now I have more reason to go to all other planets and moons because of the new Planetary encounter option added in Contact update, I did not found all of them yet, more fun exploring time so more playing time after +6000 hours in-game ;)

EDIT
Exploring all Moons give different Trade stations faster and we have to buy Zone Chips for the needed Safe Zones at the Hard Biomes having spiders and lightning damage.