Question about the engines

[Takatufftuff]

Hello everyone,

I have a question about the spaceship engines.

First of all, I was a player from the very beginning when the game launched into Early Access. Back then, there were no planets, just individual asteroids and only one type of engine. I had a lot of fun with a few friends and then didn't play the game for many years.

Now a friend had the idea to tinker with the game a bit. He started on this Earth-like planet and then tried to build a spaceship that could take off from the planet, fly into space, and land on other planets. But since there are so many different engines these days, the ship looked so ridiculous, it was somehow just made up of engines. The ship looked so stupid, it can't be like that, it must work differently, hopefully.

Now to my actual question, are there engines that allow you to launch from planets with atmospheres, fly into space, and land on all other planets? Or do you really need different types of engines to do that? Does anyone know of a good guide for that? And can the slightly larger ships, like the ones you see in the pictures in the shop, also land on these planets with atmospheres, or do they just fall from the sky?

Thanks for the help, regards

[Dantheotherone]

Basically there are three types of thrusters. Planet atmosphere (jet engines), space only (Ion thrusters) and the one for space and planetary is the hydrogen thrusters.

You need a O2/H2 generator filled with ice to make oxygen and hydrogen. Also hydrogen tanks and batteries. Plumb it all in with conveyors and you're good to go.

[DukeSatan]

Atmo engines work up to around 6km before their performance drops off to zero in an atmosphere, their primary use it to help lift the weight of a ship using electrical power, saving on H2 and the need for lots of tanks.

That said, their own power to weight ratio is a lot lower than a Hydrogen thruster, so if you have plenty of H2 or have on board generation from Ice then you don't need them, saving your design from being overly complex and containing large amount of thrusters.

But, if you are on a high gravity planet with an atmosphere then yep, your gonna need all the help you can get, getting that last bit into space without enough H2 will make a nice new crater on the planets surface!!

Ion's as said above are space electrical thrusters, weak output but again, saves on H2, so its a choice as to having a few, getting up to speed then disabling inertial dampeners and coasting around, the downside is you need a longer distance to stop in, or switch on the hydrogen thrusters for an emergency stop.

Splitsie often adds a booster pack on his ships with parachutes on once he drops them off (merge block), add beacon on them and you can easily go and collect again with a atmospheric only ship.

You don't always have to land using thrusters, typically on entry I'll drop through the atmo until i'm maybe 2km from the ground and only then start turning on thrusters to bring me in with a quick stop.

BUT, you have to know your ship AND if its fully loaded, know your gonna stop in time, weight/cargo/ore has a dramatic effect and having a few parachutes as backup is always worth while.

This way you can use just hydrogen thrusters, hunt down Ice and have some on board H2/O2 generators to top up your tank and away you go, a small atmo/ion miner will help there be you in space or not and it can be docked in a small area, say 2x2x2 large block easy enough.

Edit:
Don't worry about all the different engine types, there are only 3, however, there are reskinned versions in different DLC's, look for their type and maybe stick to one design style over mixing styles, that can be confusing to.

[Takatufftuff]

Thank you very much for your answers, that helped me a lot. I'll give it a try.

[Captain Canard]

Originally posted by Takatufftuff:

Now to my actual question, are there engines that allow you to launch from planets with atmospheres, fly into space, and land on all other planets?

Hydrogen engines do it all, and they do it well. The caveat - they require fuel, a lot of fuel.

Or do you really need different types of engines to do that?

Not a need, but sometimes a want. I rarely have ships with ALL engine types. If my hydrogen ship is space-bound, I might add a few small ion thrusters as a "backup" should I run out of fuel or take a hit to the fuel lines in combat. If my hydrogen ship is frequently flying around planets, I'll add vertical atmo thrusters to greatly conserve fuel.

However, I rarely build all-purpose ships made for every planet. I build space-only ships that can also easily handle small moons with low gravity, and I build separate "aircraft" that I'll drop from orbit down to large planets like earth, where they stay. So while I'll have different ships using different thrusters, it is rare that I have one ship with all thrusters. And back to your original question - you do not NEED anything but hydrogen thrusters for an all-purpose, all planet / space ship.

[DivineEvil]

Originally posted by Takatufftuff:

Hello everyone,

I have a question about the spaceship engines.

First of all, I was a player from the very beginning when the game launched into Early Access. Back then, there were no planets, just individual asteroids and only one type of engine. I had a lot of fun with a few friends and then didn't play the game for many years.

Now a friend had the idea to tinker with the game a bit. He started on this Earth-like planet and then tried to build a spaceship that could take off from the planet, fly into space, and land on other planets. But since there are so many different engines these days, the ship looked so ridiculous, it was somehow just made up of engines. The ship looked so stupid, it can't be like that, it must work differently, hopefully.

Now to my actual question, are there engines that allow you to launch from planets with atmospheres, fly into space, and land on all other planets? Or do you really need different types of engines to do that? Does anyone know of a good guide for that? And can the slightly larger ships, like the ones you see in the pictures in the shop, also land on these planets with atmospheres, or do they just fall from the sky?

Thanks for the help, regards

Like other have said, there's 3 types of thrusters:

Atmospheric - simple and reliable. Works on power and optimal for use in planet atmosphere. Power scales with atmoshperic pressure, so it won't work on the barren moons and in open space.

Hydrogen - universal option. Works everywhere and the most powerful of the three. The drawback is that you need hydrogen tanks to supply the fuel, which has to be connected to every thrusters via conveyor system, so it can inflate size and mass of the ship.

Ion - optimized for open space. Works on power alone and minimizes mass, but requires advanced Thruster Components, and weakest of the three, might not be good enough for moons with substantial gravity.

Hydrogen thrusters is a good choice for do-it-all ships once you have a working fuel processing facility, but other types are good for small utility vessels working in particular conditions, and especially for drones.

[Spaceman Spiff]

I usually stick with one or two types, but occasionally use all three when it seems appropriate. Here is one example...
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2968636798
I call this ship a "utility vehicle" because of its multi-purpose use. It's heavy lift, so it can haul a full load of ingots to most of the planets, but also works well as a mining ship. I used all three to minimize hydrogen use on planets as well as in space; the hydrogen thrusters are essential, however, to ascend from planets to space, especially when fully loaded.

It's all about choice. You can make a flyable ship on planets using only ion thrusters, but with a 20% efficiency in atmospheres they don't make much sense. You cannot, however, use atmospheric thrusters outside a planet's defined atmosphere, and they lose efficiency the higher you travel. So determine the purpose of your ship and that will help you determine what thruster(s) works best.

[Ronin Planetary Industries]

You can create an all hydrogen thruster ship. But you need enough hydrogen onboard. You won't do much planetary (in gravity) exploring with an all hydrogen ship. The hydrogen ship uses barely any power to fly. So a battery and a hydrogen engine is all you need for even the biggest all hydrogen ships.

You can create an all ion ship. Despite being weak in natural gravity, you can build an all ion ship that can fly in atmospheres and into outerspace. But it has to be kept very light.

And of course, you can go all atmospheric thrusters if you never plan on leaving the planetary/moon atmosphere.

Most people use a combination of thrusters. A combination of ions and atmospherics is pretty decent and is 100% rechargeable.

The full monty uses all three thrusters. Atmospherics for cruising around a planet. Ions for cruising in space. Hydrogen for emergency thrust or getting out of the gravity well of a planet/moon. "Emergency" thrust could mean that you've overloaded your ship in the atmosphere and that extra thrust will stop you from becoming a new surface crater. Maybe a bad guy just showed up and you want to leave faster. You've put yourself in a bad spot with a reckless maneuver..

[Spaceman Spiff]

Originally posted by Ronin Planetary Industries:

You can create an all hydrogen thruster ship. But you need enough hydrogen onboard. You won't do much planetary (in gravity) exploring with an all hydrogen ship. The hydrogen ship uses barely any power to fly. So a battery and a hydrogen engine is all you need for even the biggest all hydrogen ships.

You can create an all ion ship. Despite being weak in natural gravity, you can build an all ion ship that can fly in atmospheres and into outerspace. But it has to be kept very light.

And of course, you can go all atmospheric thrusters if you never plan on leaving the planetary/moon atmosphere.

Most people use a combination of thrusters. A combination of ions and atmospherics is pretty decent and is 100% rechargeable.

The full monty uses all three thrusters. Atmospherics for cruising around a planet. Ions for cruising in space. Hydrogen for emergency thrust or getting out of the gravity well of a planet/moon. "Emergency" thrust could mean that you've overloaded your ship in the atmosphere and that extra thrust will stop you from becoming a new surface crater. Maybe a bad guy just showed up and you want to leave faster. You've put yourself in a bad spot with a reckless maneuver..

Well said, and a great summary of their use.

[Takatufftuff]

Thank you very much for all your answers, information, and explanations. This is very helpful.

[EmberStar]

I haven't tried since the last major patch. I think it *might* have added weight to Hydrogen, and I know it at least *felt* like it changed how ship weight was calculated. (The mining ship I had been using felt heavy and sluggish even when empty.) But "small" large grid ships can reach orbit with just a few hydrogen thrusters. The H-01 mining ship that you can find on the workshop or buy from some of the Economy stations can reach orbit from Earthlike with plenty of fuel to spare as long as you aren't trying to carry ingots or parts.

Part of the trick is to manage your thrust so you aren't wasting fuel trying to shove past the default speed limit. The way I do it (without just using a script like Blarg's Ascent Control) is to pick either the down or rear thrusters, and make a set of toolbar controls for them with increase and decrease thrust overrides. Fly up a couple of km, then start using the "increase thrust override" button. When the ship hits a speed of about 95, use the "decrease thrust override" until it just starts to slow down again.

Note: It might also be necessary to make a control group for the opposite thrusters and turn them off - SE can be kind of erratic, and sometimes the inertial braking mechanic will fight you. If you turn off the opposing thrusters, you can keep Inertial Damping turned on, which means you can still turn if you need to. For example, if an asteroid happens to spawn inside the atmosphere, which they do now and then.

Once the thrust is balanced, you can just keep going up without having to hold down a key for almost ten minutes. And if you keep using the "decrease thrust override" control as you get higher and gravity gets weaker, you'll save a huge amount of fuel.

*Edit* It's not an outstanding design, but I actually made my own version of the H-01 yellow mining ship. I should probably edit the workshop upload for that someday, I messed up on naming and hiding some of the thrusters and stuff. But I like it as a starting ship, at least for my singleplayer games. I even used it on one of the Official Servers when I tried playing online for a bit, and the fact that it only used two of the five mining drill allowance meant that I could even keep a second mining ship if I wanted. You just need to be patient to use it, it's not a tunnel miner and you'll need to rotate around to clear out a hole big enough for it to fit into.

[Jack Schitt]

Originally posted by Takatufftuff:

The ship looked so stupid, it can't be like that, it must work differently, hopefully.

The math for thrust the developers have in place sucks and doesn't make any sense in my opinion. Thrusters can outweigh themselves and not have enough thrust to even just get themselves off the ground. For that reason I never play a game without a mod that increases thrust power, these mods make thrusters make sense and they enhance them so we don't need to make a ridiculous looking ship that's nothing but thrusters just so the damn thing hovers. I made 3 different mods because players were sharing that they thought 6x was way too much, others shared they thought 3x was too little. Only use one if you want to try using any of them:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2915288283

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3348431105

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3399307133

Originally posted by Takatufftuff:

Now to my actual question, are there engines that allow you to launch from planets with atmospheres, fly into space, and land on all other planets?

Hydrogen Thrusters work in all atmospheres and in outer space. They work everywhere. Hydrogen is the solution for only using one type of engine to go everywhere.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Originally posted by Jack Schitt:

The math for thrust the developers have in place sucks and doesn't make any sense in my opinion. Thrusters can outweigh themselves and not have enough thrust to even just get themselves off the ground. For that reason I never play a game without a mod that increases thrust power, these mods make thrusters make sense and they enhance them so we don't need to make a ridiculous looking ship that's nothing but thrusters just so the damn thing hovers. I made 3 different mods because players were sharing that they thought 6x was way too much, others shared they thought 3x was too little.

You are one multitalented individual, Jack. I gravel at your feet!

[Jack Schitt]

LMAO

[Captain Canard]

Originally posted by Jack Schitt:

The math for thrust the developers have in place sucks and doesn't make any sense in my opinion. Thrusters can outweigh themselves and not have enough thrust to even just get themselves off the ground. For that reason I never play a game without a mod that increases thrust power, these mods make thrusters make sense and they enhance them so we don't need to make a ridiculous looking ship that's nothing but thrusters just so the damn thing hovers.

Seriously? I mean, sure, if it makes you feel better, but I've never had the sense that SE thrusters are under-powered, unless you're comparing them to an Avengers movie Helicarrier rather than SpaceX Dragon Heavy or even NASA's old space shuttle. I'm pretty sure if you wanted to fly an IRL aircraft carrier or Navy cruiser, it too would be "nothing but thrusters" in order to just to hover.

[Jack Schitt]

Originally posted by Captain Canard:

Originally posted by Jack Schitt:

The math for thrust the developers have in place sucks and doesn't make any sense in my opinion. Thrusters can outweigh themselves and not have enough thrust to even just get themselves off the ground. For that reason I never play a game without a mod that increases thrust power, these mods make thrusters make sense and they enhance them so we don't need to make a ridiculous looking ship that's nothing but thrusters just so the damn thing hovers.

Seriously? I mean, sure, if it makes you feel better, but I've never had the sense that SE thrusters are under-powered, unless you're comparing them to an Avengers movie Helicarrier rather than SpaceX Dragon Heavy or even NASA's old space shuttle. I'm pretty sure if you wanted to fly an IRL aircraft carrier or Navy cruiser, it too would be "nothing but thrusters" in order to just to hover.

Nope. Take a jet for example. There are usually only 1 or 2 engines on a jet that take those machines to above and well beyond the sound barrier with ease. That is not even close to possible to do in this game. Especially, yeah, with the speed limit cap but....hopefully you get the comparison. Their math sucks. Nor does it make any logical sense.
That is my opinion and, apparently, the opinion of the players that use my thruster mods.

As a test to see what I'm talking about attach thrusters to a battery and a cockpit and keep attaching more thrusters to it. After a few thrusters are attached even just a battery and thrusters will be too heavy for the thrusters to lift themselves. It will fall to the ground and not have a chance of hovering let alone flying or being controllable. Even if you place all the thrusters facing down it will be grounded and not go anywhere.