Space Engineers 2 is just another worthless DLC

[Jeff]

When I started playing Space Engineers years ago there were a few DLC's available and new ones from time to time, but I just stopped getting them because all they added to the game was cosmetics. I was looking for content (more stuff to see and do).

Then they came out with Space Engineers 2. I couldn't wait for this at first, but it was a huge let down. Just more cosmetics and better graphics. Where is the content?

I left Space Engineers after 1,000 hours. I had done everything in the game and wasn't interested in building out ships and buildings in more cosmetic ways. If they ever add real content to the game I may be back or maybe I've lost interest and moved on to more interesting games.

[BaseWall]

Space Engineers 2 is just another worthless DLC

You got a big mouth for some one who hasnt even been playing SE2!

Can you prove any of this, or is this just slander?

[TheHellKat]

It's their opinion...

Also it's in print, so it's lible not slander.

[Tux]

Origineel geplaatst door Troubleshooter:

Origineel geplaatst door Bullslayer:

always amazes me how quick people are to hate something before its even out yet...

Just like to point out that lots of people who really like SE also have a LONG HISTORY of progressively worse disappointment waiting on Keen to deliver ANYTHING that wasn't cosmetic.

I even tried to build scenarios to share with the community just to kick up some fun for people... the editor was broken and undocumented and Keen wasn't interested in helping... and lets people waste their time on their own broken tools because good will doesn't pay $$$ in their business model.

If people are skeptical to the point of outright hostility, it's not like they just woke up today and decided Keen isn't that great. This took a long time to bear fruit, and Keen needs to demonstrate this isn't just a cash grab.

I for one am looking forward to the announcement that you're going to have to buy 80% of the DLC again for the new game ... because reasons. Just wait... it's coming.

people who are not developers and have never run a businesses from my understanding are all better by far than those who actually do both.

[Captain Canard]

Origineel geplaatst door dhitch89:

And he's still not getting it... wow.

Welp, time to move on everyone.

It's kinda fun to jump into a thread like this and say, "I'm very excited about SE2, and it's definitely not going to a worthless DLC to me!" Caveat being that it becomes what Keen says it will become. I really have no interest in purchasing the bare-bones January tech demo (a description some disagree with, but it's how I view it). I do understand people's fear that Keen won't finish what they start.

[Grrys]

Sure, can't ignore the mods belonging to SE1. The dev should be given a free assistance in porting the code. You needs mod in SE2.

[TheHellKat]

Origineel geplaatst door Grrys:

Sure, can't ignore the mods belonging to SE1. The dev should be given a free assistance in porting the code. You needs mod in SE2.

There will be mods in SE2, the Devs are even giving us access to the tools they they use to make them.

As with most things it's just a case of they won't be in on day 1.

[Tux]

Origineel geplaatst door Grrys:

Sure, can't ignore the mods belonging to SE1. The dev should be given a free assistance in porting the code. You needs mod in SE2.

'porting code' is almost always a nightmare and a waste of time that creates more work with less results.

Its best to start with a new slate after an application is 10 years old or so.
reason is less to do with the framework the code was written in (although this is a factor) but more to do with the fact that the code in question has been patch worked over the years and is less clean

[TheHellKat]

To give an example to Tuxs post, code isn't just line by line, it's mostly references, so each line of code needs to be paired with each reference.

To make this easier to visualise, imagine fresh code to be uncooked spaghetti, all neatly lined up and straight, easy to sort through and see what's connected to what...

Now take that spaghetti and cook it, mix it up with other ingredients and sauce and serve... It's not so easy to see where one strand starts and another ends...

While it is possible, it's easier to start fresh.

[Oparator Stalker]

Origineel geplaatst door Tux:

'porting code' is almost always a nightmare

I agree, namely since the block models itself uses self size adjustments based on their vids, and not a grid size to the grid size they attached to. Would be interesting to see how a large or small block model would port to a game that uses a block model in which itself was created to be adjusted to different sizes on a single grid using collision zones that are absolute to the block model type and way it is made. I am just not seeing how a blue print can get ported to this new function of building.

[Tux]

Origineel geplaatst door TheHellKat:

To give an example to Tuxs post, code isn't just line by line, it's mostly references, so each line of code needs to be paired with each reference.

To make this easier to visualise, imagine fresh code to be uncooked spaghetti, all neatly lined up and straight, easy to sort through and see what's connected to what...

Now take that spaghetti and cook it, mix it up with other ingredients and sauce and serve... It's not so easy to see where one strand starts and another ends...

While it is possible, it's easier to start fresh.

Even the best of developers have to make a quick fix to code which interacts with another piece of code that was also patch worked. So one has to do something they otherwise would not do in order to make it work.
One might tell themselves 'I will come back and make that cleaner' but there is rarely time to do that and barely any business justification to do it because another patch need will come eventually that will challenge the entire architecture one spend days on re-factoring.

Its best to just accept that overtime there will come a point where a lot more can be done by starting completely over with a blank sheet of paper so to speak.

Also, some developers try to mitage this from the start by creating TONS of layers of abstraction. This 1. takes too much time 2. adds more code that can cause errors. 3. is nearly impossible to follow for a new dev. 4. creates more mess than its trying to solve

[MekaDovah]

As a buyer, either the game gives me what I want or it doesn't. If it does, I buy. If it doesn't, I walk. Nothing else matters.

[Gryphon]

Origineel geplaatst door Jeff:

When I started playing Space Engineers years ago there were a few DLC's available and new ones from time to time, but I just stopped getting them because all they added to the game was cosmetics. I was looking for content (more stuff to see and do).

Then they came out with Space Engineers 2. I couldn't wait for this at first, but it was a huge let down. Just more cosmetics and better graphics. Where is the content?

I left Space Engineers after 1,000 hours. I had done everything in the game and wasn't interested in building out ships and buildings in more cosmetic ways. If they ever add real content to the game I may be back or maybe I've lost interest and moved on to more interesting games.

I write code for a living. I understand what's involved in the update process and I also CLEARLY understand what early access is. The fun of SE for me is the DLC's and the cosmetics. We test EA for them and they update and fix what we find. Mutual relationship. And I'm happy to pay $30 to be part of it. Why gripe about it when you can just pass?

[Captain Canard]

Origineel geplaatst door sTankWhiStLe:

I write code for a living. I understand what's involved in the update process and I also CLEARLY understand what early access is. The fun of SE for me is the DLC's and the cosmetics. We test EA for them and they update and fix what we find. Mutual relationship. And I'm happy to pay $30 to be part of it. Why gripe about it when you can just pass?

Me too! Well, I used to until I retired to a less stressful job. I agree with everything you say (though I'm waiting for a more mature version of the EA release). I'll also add there comes a time where you just hit the constraints of the underlying "engine" where it's way more productive to just move on to a new / different engine. In SE, that's moving from VRAGE 2 to VRAGE 3, for me it was changing both the underlying database and even the language* in which our product was written in. It allowed us to release a MUCH better product than we could have if we just brute forced the old platform.

And yes, people need to get paid for their work. All these gripers bought what they bought, not an infinitely supply of newer and better for free. That's like buying a phone or car and expecting lifetime upgrades to the latest model of phone or car for free. Nope, that's not how the world works.

* For SE, I actually do hope they stick with C#, as I like this language (good for modding), especially if Keen puts a little extra effort into the cross-platform nature of .NET on Linux.

[Tux]

Origineel geplaatst door MekaDovah:

As a buyer, either the game gives me what I want or it doesn't. If it does, I buy. If it doesn't, I walk. Nothing else matters.

that should be extremely obvious to everyone and borderlines on absurd to do otherwise.
It should not be seen as unique but rather sane.

Why? because the inverse of that would be 'buy a game one thinks one would not enjoy'
which of course is absurd advice and absurd conduct

[P0ps]

Couldn't agree more to OP, I had a nostalgia feeling about this and after watching the teaser. I mean fair, upgrading an engine takes a lot of time, they lost me long time ago with the cosmetics stuff. It is what it is man gotta pay it bills, but damn, I have no hope for the next game. I liked the space survival aspect of it and then what I could design, but it became bland real quick.

I don't even know what route it should take to be relevant. PVP? Official servers with hundred of players? Wipes like rust? Npc's, if so what kind are we talking about, bots waiting to be killed or some kind of eco system? That seems like a lot lf works, hats off if they pull it off.

You won't get me with the 10x better. Sounds a lot like 16x the details to me and we all saw where that lead Bethesda.